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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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Bulldogs probably conceded they were going to lose most ruck contests and just focused on putting massive pressure on our midfielders when gathering possession. We couldn't match their endeavor or composure with the disputed ball either. As far as getting beaten around the ground, well, having 2 opponents doesn't help. Grundy can't do it all on his own
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| It doesn't translate into clearances at Collingwood because our midfield is shambolic. Pendlebury, an under-done Adams and a half-fit de Goey aside, which ones would you actually pick by choice out of last night's midfield? |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | It doesn't translate into clearances at Collingwood because our midfield is shambolic. Pendlebury, an under-done Adams and a half-fit de Goey aside, which ones would you actually pick by choice out of last night's midfield? |
yeah I was particularly watching him, the middle wheeled around but didn’t really try to get free, so what does he do? Like the rest of the team his confidence is down.
Not helpful when maths are bouncing off the chest if Pendles, adams etc Jezza is right they are getting a pass
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Can't blame him for Everthing as our Midfield is also Crap
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FletchLives
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
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| I really think we should play Cox in ruck more. Grundy is a good player but every week teams are going to throw 2 guys at him with a plan to wear him down and minimise his ability to compete at ground level. Sure, if a team can only play one inferior ruck against him then let him go all day but this isn't happening. He always beats his direct opponent to get to more taps but they are putting a body on him and making sure he can't influence further. Teams need a different plan for Cox, whilst not as strong his ability to tap to advantage is better. His skills in close are still not fantastic but have been improving season to season. I think both in tandem makes for a harder proposition for opposition teams and would preserve Grundy for longer. |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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Must say I was very happy to see Cox push deep and effect the contests down there, killed plenty of 50/50 balls, did well
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"You hate a mean man, a grasping man, a man who wants everything and gives nothing. That’s Collingwood. They are a law unto themselves"
Jack 'Captain Blood' Dyer |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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That was a magnificent effort from Cox to celebrate his 30th birthday earlier in the week - it was his first double-digit disposal game since round 19, 2019 and just the third time in his 70 games that he has had more than 10 kicks. In fact, he has only once had more disposals in a game (one more, 3&1/2 seasons back) - and only had as many disposals as he did at the weekend on one other occasion. Also, his 7 hitouts were over 20% of his season total of hitouts (34) in 2020 and his 2 goals were within one of his best tally since his career day-out against Melbourne in the middle of 2018.
Put simply, that was a way above-average performance from Cox - indeed, nearly as good as it gets from him - and the team could still only manage 7 goals. |
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FletchLives
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | That was a magnificent effort from Cox to celebrate his 30th birthday earlier in the week - it was his first double-digit disposal game since round 19, 2019 and just the third time in his 70 games that he has had more than 10 kicks. In fact, he has only once had more disposals in a game (one more, 3&1/2 seasons back) - and only had as many disposals as he did at the weekend on one other occasion. Also, his 7 hitouts were over 20% of his season total of hitouts (34) in 2020 and his 2 goals were within one of his best tally since his career day-out against Melbourne in the middle of 2018.
Put simply, that was a way above-average performance from Cox - indeed, nearly as good as it gets from him - and the team could still only manage 7 goals. |
OK - I feel you are knocking Cox needlessly but in answer to your points... Cox is old because he took up football late - who knows how many years he has left but at the moment he is still nearly 7 foot and seems to be running around OK and I believe is continuing to improve. He is never going to get hit outs unless he is in ruck contests. He is probably never going to be a high possession player but he has a knack for being involved in scoring plays. He was marked as elite by champion data (this is stats based even if we don't know the exact algorithm). Im not knocking Grundy, but I believe we need to be smarter in how we use him - his strength at contests has been nullified over last year - I can't accept that the primary reason is that he was in a hub. Teams have a strategy for him - it is working. Grundy is still young and has a long contract, him crashing against 2 guys per game I don't think will have much longevity and appears pointless unless we have complimentary mids for his style of play - we don't at present. |
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Rosolino_Leone
Joined: 22 Mar 2021
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| FletchLives wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | That was a magnificent effort from Cox to celebrate his 30th birthday earlier in the week - it was his first double-digit disposal game since round 19, 2019 and just the third time in his 70 games that he has had more than 10 kicks. In fact, he has only once had more disposals in a game (one more, 3&1/2 seasons back) - and only had as many disposals as he did at the weekend on one other occasion. Also, his 7 hitouts were over 20% of his season total of hitouts (34) in 2020 and his 2 goals were within one of his best tally since his career day-out against Melbourne in the middle of 2018.
Put simply, that was a way above-average performance from Cox - indeed, nearly as good as it gets from him - and the team could still only manage 7 goals. |
OK - I feel you are knocking Cox needlessly but in answer to your points... Cox is old because he took up football late - who knows how many years he has left but at the moment he is still nearly 7 foot and seems to be running around OK and I believe is continuing to improve. He is never going to get hit outs unless he is in ruck contests. He is probably never going to be a high possession player but he has a knack for being involved in scoring plays. He was marked as elite by champion data (this is stats based even if we don't know the exact algorithm). Im not knocking Grundy, but I believe we need to be smarter in how we use him - his strength at contests has been nullified over last year - I can't accept that the primary reason is that he was in a hub. Teams have a strategy for him - it is working. Grundy is still young and has a long contract, him crashing against 2 guys per game I don't think will have much longevity and appears pointless unless we have complimentary mids for his style of play - we don't at present. |
I'd rather Cox handballs it off after all the big marks he takes ( in which he is much better than Grundy, who IMO is a below average contested mark ) There is no need for Cox to be kicking unless he is having a shot, all the big monster marks are better rewarded if a mid is running past for the handball give off.
This will explain silly stats like that one
Maybe Grundy would benefit if he can get onto some of those hanball-give offs from all the big marks Coxy takes
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“You can’t head down to Smith St and buy confidence, can you? There’s no confidence shop.” |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| FletchLives wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | That was a magnificent effort from Cox to celebrate his 30th birthday earlier in the week - it was his first double-digit disposal game since round 19, 2019 and just the third time in his 70 games that he has had more than 10 kicks. In fact, he has only once had more disposals in a game (one more, 3&1/2 seasons back) - and only had as many disposals as he did at the weekend on one other occasion. Also, his 7 hitouts were over 20% of his season total of hitouts (34) in 2020 and his 2 goals were within one of his best tally since his career day-out against Melbourne in the middle of 2018.
Put simply, that was a way above-average performance from Cox - indeed, nearly as good as it gets from him - and the team could still only manage 7 goals. |
OK - I feel you are knocking Cox needlessly but in answer to your points... Cox is old because he took up football late - who knows how many years he has left but at the moment he is still nearly 7 foot and seems to be running around OK and I believe is continuing to improve. He is never going to get hit outs unless he is in ruck contests. He is probably never going to be a high possession player but he has a knack for being involved in scoring plays. He was marked as elite by champion data (this is stats based even if we don't know the exact algorithm). Im not knocking Grundy, but I believe we need to be smarter in how we use him - his strength at contests has been nullified over last year - I can't accept that the primary reason is that he was in a hub. Teams have a strategy for him - it is working. Grundy is still young and has a long contract, him crashing against 2 guys per game I don't think will have much longevity and appears pointless unless we have complimentary mids for his style of play - we don't at present. |
I was most certainly not knocking Cox. I said that it was a magnificent effort from him and then I tried to put it into the context of his career as a whole. That was just about as well as he can play (unless he suddenly takes his game to new heights). He might kick a goal or two more on a given day but we saw him play about as well as he ever has. |
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | It doesn't translate into clearances at Collingwood because our midfield is shambolic. Pendlebury, an under-done Adams and a half-fit de Goey aside, which ones would you actually pick by choice out of last night's midfield? |
He could try actually hitting it in their direction for starters.
Yes, you are right that our mids are half baked at the moment. But Reg is also hitting it to where they ain't. He even hit one straight back to his opposing ruck..... Again! |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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Jamar was a good ruckman in his day, I'm hoping his hiring will lead to some more innovative centre set ups and tapwork
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"You hate a mean man, a grasping man, a man who wants everything and gives nothing. That’s Collingwood. They are a law unto themselves"
Jack 'Captain Blood' Dyer |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ Career stats: 160 games in 14 seasons. Average of a bit under 11.5 games per year. Played 10 or more games in 7 of his 14 seasons. Played 22 twice and otherwise managed 17 games once. Averaged a bit under 3 kicks, about 5 handballs and about 2 marks per game. Polled Brownlow votes 6 times but not for best on ground. Averaged 22 hitouts per game. Hopefully, his coaching knowledge is more impressive than his playing career. |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ Career stats: 160 games in 14 seasons. Average of a bit under 11.5 games per year. Played 10 or more games in 7 of his 14 seasons. Played 22 twice and otherwise managed 17 games once. Averaged a bit under 3 kicks, about 5 handballs and about 2 marks per game. Polled Brownlow votes 6 times but not for best on ground. Averaged 22 hitouts per game. Hopefully, his coaching knowledge is more impressive than his playing career. |
I don't think those stats capture his efforts; he was injured a lot, but when fit was a great ruck, seem to remember him kicking our arse a few times |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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P4S, I don't think that most would accept your statement that "Even when Grundy couldn't run out games last year, they turned to Cameron and Lynch before Cox. That tells you everything you need to know about Cox."
Most would think that the decision not to play Cox as a ruckman is that he is the only forward that we have that can reach the top shelf in the pantry at home. Better to play without a ruckman than to take Cox out of the forward line. The position that Cox plays is more difficult to play, and more important to the team, than the position played by Grundy. |
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