General discussion about world racism

[5 from the wing on debut]

<Split from the GD thread on the "Do Better" report - Pies4shaw for BBMods>

[Lazza]

I think you are right if we look at racism in the 90’s and naughties. However I question what people have to be scared of with everything so open these days. I believe the best method to fight racism is to confront it, challenge it, expose it and not be scared by it. This works for me and I find most perpetrators are pretty sad and decrepit lost souls seeking attention by any means to gain some recognition for their worthless and moronic lives.

[5 from the wing on debut]

How does that apply though to European, Middle Eastern, African and Asian countries that are overtly racist and xenophobic in terms of official government policies?

[think positive]

Some of them hide behind their religion,

I’m lucky I get to spend time with my kids friends, may be they are just a great bunch if kids but the don’t notice race, sex, sexuality etc, I do think it’s generational, just like woman voting, it takes time to change a whole generations thinking. I admit I think things I wish I didn’t, because I was raised that way. I try not to act them out though.

I coppedit when I came here from England, I think everyone different does. We need to teach better manners, kindness, and that jokes that target something about a person are not acceptable, it’s not funny, it’s just a gutless wayof having a dig.

Racism won’t end, there will always be small minded people.

[David]

If you’re asking whether anything has really changed, well, yes, in two key ways.

The first is structurally: laws have been passed or revoked that – as just one example among many – mean that people aren’t blocked from coming into the country because of the colour of their skin. Or don’t get turned away from public establishments. Or are able to vote.

The second is culturally. The ability to be Aboriginal or Asian or African or Middle-Eastern or (for that matter) Greek or Irish in this country and not be treated with overt hostility, disdain or ostracisation in day-to-day life is a function of changing views and values regarding how people perceive and respond to racial difference, even though racism of course still exists to varying degrees and is much more directed at some groups – for instance, people of African background – than others.

None of this means that the evolutionary drives that underlie racism have changed or can be changed. But the concept of what constitutes "difference" – that is, the kind of difference that provokes fear and mistrust – is highly malleable, and it is quite commonplace for former outgroups to come to be seen as part of an ingroup. Whether there always needs to be an "Other" of some sort is another question.

[Pi]

You have to wonder why some people get away with things because they are on the right 'team' or speak the new speak.

Yes; that right, Justin Trudeau is still Canadian PM and as late as 2001 was still doing black face on regular basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/19/justin-trudeau-wearing-blackface-details-emerge-third-incident

Even I knew as far back as 1985 that cavorting about in black face was bad idea.
The closest I ever came to black face was an unfortunate oil change on a 1967 Bedford.

Justin Trudeau, the great progressive icon is still PM; how does that work? Anyone else's political career would have ended there and then; apology or no apology.

[David]

There were similar photographs that emerged around the same time of Democratic governor of Virginia Ralph Northam. He was under a lot more pressure over them, but it seemed that no-one could stomach the idea of the other side taking power (as probably would have happened if he had stepped down, for various convoluted reasons). Personally, I think that’s pretty reasonable, and don’t really think that the political future of a state should depend on some youthful act of insensitivity. For what it’s worth, I’ve seen no indication that a Republican politician would have been under any more pressure to step down, so I think your premise is questionable here.

With Trudeau, it seemed less like an isolated incident than something he really liked doing, a lot. He’s a weird guy, that’s for sure. But he seems to be made of teflon generally.

[Pies4shaw]

Does anyone know enough about Canadian politics to comment intelligently? And if they do, do they care enough to comment? It isn't after all, the ice hockey or something important like that.

Thirdly - and more seriously, this all happened 20 years ago and more. Canada maintained its blackface representations as an "accepted" aspect in its popular culture until very recent times (see, eg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOc9t-XKvRE , which aired on TV in 2014). It's probably now frowned upon.

If he was an American politician and did it in the US, it might have ended his political career (although, one could as easily see him appointed to high office in some jurisdictions). Whether one "gets away" with such things depends upon where one sits in the power structure, rather than one's politics.

[5 from the wing on debut]

[Pi]

^
Thats the whole point; I wasn't, but even back then; red neck Pi from semi rural Victoria was made aware that black face was a bad idea, certainly by 2000 it was generally not acceptable. Trudeau was a professional teacher in the early 2000's when he was doing it on regular basis.

[David]

Yeah, can't speak with any authority about Canadian culture, but while it's clear that blackface wasn't seen as being as big of a deal as it was in the US, I think it's fair to say that there have been some taboos around it in the Commonwealth countries since at least the 1960s.

I recently ran an article on the history of blackface on Australian television in the magazine I edit, and it's very interesting reading – you can definitely break it down into periods in which certain types of blackface were generally seen as acceptable and others weren't (for instance, in the 1990s nobody thought much of donning make-up to impersonate Indians on mainstream TV, but doing the same for African-American or Aboriginal people was already taboo, hence the opprobrium directed at Sam Newman for the Nicky Winmar skit in newspapers in 1999, a decade before Hey, Hey, It's Saturday). I think it's fair to presume that it would have been less frowned upon at fancy dress parties and the like, but it's not like nobody knew it was an issue.

[5 from the wing on debut]

[Dr Pie]

[5 from the wing on debut]

[stui magpie]

Only recently I was in an Op Shop browsing old Vinyl records and found an old Black and White Minstrels record.

I decided against buying it.