Oh, the Humanities!
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| Tannin wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Slangman, that's such an incredibly ignorant view, I can't even engage with it. |
Indeed. It is very difficult to know where to start when faced with blind, bigoted ignorance of that ilk. I mean, one could hunt around for a first point to make which might be understood, then a second, all the while recalling that Rome wasn't built in a day, but in all probability nothing anyone could say would make the slightest bit of difference. It's not a point of view, it's a great big chip on the shoulder and I doubt that anything could remove it. Best not to try. |
Bigoted and ignorant??
Please explain to me what I have posted that falls under those categories.
It’s a different opinion to yours (luckily in this democracy we are all entitled to an opinion), but bigoted and ignorant??.
Academics in opinion based fields are overrated as best displayed by Pringle, Berehndat, Coombes and the idiots who fell for Bohgassian, Pluckrose and Lindsay’s fake papers.....that’s humanities for you!!!
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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How familiar are you with Behrendt’s work outside of this review? She’s a well-respected academic with a productive track record over the better part of three decades. This is a small excerpt from her Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larissa_Behrendt
| Quote: | Behrendt has been active in issues around Indigenous education including literacy. In 2002, she was the co-recipient of the inaugural Neville Bonner National Teaching Award. She has served on the board of Tranby Aboriginal College in Glebe, Sydney and has been ambassador for the Gawura Campus (an Indigenous primary school) of St Andrew's Cathedral School since at least 2012. She was a founder of the Sydney Story Factory in 2012, which established a literacy program in Redfern.
In April 2011, Behrendt was appointed to chair the Review of Higher Education Access and Outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People for the federal government. The Review, tasked with providing a roadmap for Indigenous university education, delivered its report in September 2012 and received a widely positive response for its emphasis on achievable parity targets and the re-allocation of existing resources to support meaningful outcomes such as "fostering a 'professional class' of Indigenous graduates". In releasing the report on 14 September 2012, Senator Chris Evans, Minister for Tertiary Education, accepted all of its recommendations. |
What a pity such a career pathway was available to her and she didn’t just spend her working life in a McDonald’s drive thru box with the rest of us. 
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| slangman wrote: | Bigoted and ignorant??
Please explain to me what I have posted that falls under those categories.
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Your ignorant blanket dismissal of the entire body of learning about human culture, history, achievements, governance, arts and beauty, societies, economies, the rise and fall of empires, the genesis, growth, and senescence of religions. In short everything about everyone. And you want to ignore it all.
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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"You can still study history in your spare time" = watching reruns of Ancient Aliens on The History Channel. 
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | History is the Propaganda of the victors |
Truth |
It’s on everyone’s desk calendar too 😉
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think positive
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | History is the Propaganda of the victors |
Truth |
It’s on everyone’s desk calendar too 😉 |
No mine I have crazy cat pictures
Actually dogs
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| Tannin wrote: | | slangman wrote: | Bigoted and ignorant??
Please explain to me what I have posted that falls under those categories.
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Your ignorant blanket dismissal of the entire body of learning about human culture, history, achievements, governance, arts and beauty, societies, economies, the rise and fall of empires, the genesis, growth, and senescence of religions. In short everything about everyone. And you want to ignore it all. |
Ease up on the “ignorant”.
I don’t ignore history. In fact I have a very strong interest in history and have since I was young. It fascinates me hence why I travel a lot to form my OWN views on all the above points that you have mentioned. No need to go to uni to learn about culture, history, art, societies etc. they are best done by actually travelling to the places and experiencing them first hand, not from some “career academics”.
Forming ones views of all of your above mentioned issues from the opinions of an “academic” is akin to deciding whether a movie is good or bad based on the opinion of a movie critic without actually even watching the movie.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Doubling down on your ridiculous views doesn't make them any less ignorant. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| slangman wrote: | I don’t ignore history. In fact I have a very strong interest in history and have since I was young. It fascinates me hence why I travel a lot to form my OWN views on all the above points that you have mentioned. No need to go to uni to learn about culture, history, art, societies etc. they are best done by actually travelling to the places and experiencing them first hand, not from some “career academics”.
Forming ones views of all of your above mentioned issues from the opinions of an “academic” is akin to deciding whether a movie is good or bad based on the opinion of a movie critic without actually even watching the movie. |
Let's unpack this a little: what exactly are you learning when you visit these places? Just the stuff you hear from random locals, or are you visiting museums, attending guided tours run by people who are summarising others' research, sitting in on historical/anthropological talks and reading books? If any of the latter, then odds are that you're benefiting from stuff that originated in a humanities department.
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Doubling down on your ridiculous views doesn't make them any less ignorant. |
OK!!!
Doubling down??.
If you’re going to make personal attacks, at least do it with more than just your opinion. Otherwise we could be going around in circles with our own opinions and who is right and wrong.
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| slangman wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Doubling down on your ridiculous views doesn't make them any less ignorant. |
OK!!!
Doubling down??.
If you’re going to make personal attacks, at least do it with more than just your opinion. Otherwise we could be going around in circles with our own opinions and who is right and wrong. |
Nah, he's entrely right. There's opinion and there's what P4S just wrote.
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| David wrote: | | slangman wrote: | I don’t ignore history. In fact I have a very strong interest in history and have since I was young. It fascinates me hence why I travel a lot to form my OWN views on all the above points that you have mentioned. No need to go to uni to learn about culture, history, art, societies etc. they are best done by actually travelling to the places and experiencing them first hand, not from some “career academics”.
Forming ones views of all of your above mentioned issues from the opinions of an “academic” is akin to deciding whether a movie is good or bad based on the opinion of a movie critic without actually even watching the movie. |
Let's unpack this a little: what exactly are you learning when you visit these places? Just the stuff you hear from random locals, or are you visiting museums, attending guided tours run by people who are summarising others' research, sitting in on historical/anthropological talks and reading books? If any of the latter, then odds are that you're benefiting from stuff that originated in a humanities department. |
I’ve been to more museums and galleries than I can remember.
Your point of sitting in on historical talk is interesting, because depending on one’s political leaning will usually determine the angle that they take when assessing history. The problem I have with humanities academics is that they are seldom impartial.
But I say it again so that you understand, imho humanities subjects are opinion based which is ok and I don’t begrudge that. I just don’t see how or why that should be a university degree.
What’s next, a uni degree on the religious support of football supporters??
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| slangman wrote: | | But I say it again so that you understand, imho humanities subjects are opinion based which is ok and I don’t begrudge that. I just don’t see how or why that should be a university degree. |
I don't agree with that characterisation at all. I would say that they are primarily research-based. Whether that is research of, say, factual historical events or of others' theories or arguments about them – both of which are important aspects of study – the point always seems to be to pull from and add to the existing knowledge base, to develop critical frameworks, etc.
Needless to say, all museums and galleries entail curation, and there is a degree of subjectivity at work there in deciding who or what is important (and for what purposes). That probably can't be an impartial process by its very nature, but one would expect that such decisions are not mere opinions but taken from expert knowledge of the field – almost certainly derived from higher-level studies – and a great deal of research of the kind that you or I simply couldn't do with our various life commitments and lack of specialisation. If history were a mere hobby and every expert in the field needed an unrelated day job to support the limited time they had left for research, then I think it's inevitable that the field would be substantially diminished – and the museums and galleries, to name just one area, would be much poorer places for it.
As to your last comment, I don't think there would ever be such a university degree offered, but it could certainly be the subject of a thesis or research project. Why not? Understanding intersections between spirituality and interest in competitive sport could give us profound insights into how the human mind works – and the value in that kind of pursuit, I hope, is self-evident.
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Pi 
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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Perhaps someone should write a paper on why some aspects of the humanities are vulnerable to distortion of reality and absurd theories that get accepted or more likely go unchallenged because they seem to support popular ideological positions.
This is where Bohgassian, Pluckrose and Lindsay kind of had a point.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/new-sokal-hoax/572212/
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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While I'm supportive of these kinds of accountability exercises and think they do show an alarming receptiveness to bullshit in certain American disciplines, in the context of the discussion in this thread it's worth noting what the author says in the penultimate paragraph of that piece:
| Yascha Mounk wrote: | | The lesson is neither that all fields of academia should be mistrusted nor that the study of race, gender, or sexuality is unimportant. As Lindsay, Pluckrose, and Boghossian point out, their experiment would be far less worrisome if these fields of study didn’t have such great relevance. |
Indeed, he cautions throughout why it's advisable not to extrapolate from this affair that the humanities prioritise ideological agreement over scholarly rigour:
| Yascha Mounk wrote: | The Federalist, a right-wing news and commentary site, went so far as to spread the apparent ideological bias of a few journals in one particular corner of academia to most professors, the mainstream media, and Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
These attacks are empirically incorrect and intellectually dishonest. There are many fields of academia that have absolutely no patience for nonsense. While the hoaxers did manage to place articles in some of the most influential academic journals in the cluster of fields that focus on dealing with issues of race, gender, and identity, they have not penetrated the leading journals of more traditional disciplines. As a number of academics pointed out on Twitter, for example, all of the papers submitted to sociology journals were rejected. For now, it remains unlikely that the American Sociological Review or the American Political Science Review would have fallen for anything resembling “Our Struggle Is My Struggle,” a paper modeled on the infamous book with a similar title. |
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