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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Adz wrote: | | BLM is a socialist cult. |
Troll or fool? |
He isn't entirely wrong.
The organisation was founded by radical Marxists in the US who want to defund the police, destroy the nuclear family and overthrow capitalism. |
Are you being sarcastic Jezza, or is that what you really think?
If it is your genuine opinion, that disappoints me greatly because i have always thought your football posts were well reasoned, well balanced and intelligent. |
I think what Jezza was referring to were the left wing (yes, in some cases extreme left wing) political action groups that took the lead in organising the initial BLM protest rallies....and make no mistake, a lot of those people are sanctimonious dicks.
Fair to say the BLM movement has broad support though |
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Wonka
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
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| eddiesmith wrote: |
Really? Yet you google those names and BLM and there is a hell of a lot of results of them campaigning for BLM... |
Firstly, you have to distinguish between Black Lives Matter as a hashtag and generic rallying phrase that has been adopted by many people who believe that black lives have been undervalued, and BLM as some specific organization that may or may not have individuals who you regard as in some way disreputable. |
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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BLM has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism is based on class, not on race. The leaders of BLM are pseudo-lefts, they claim to be "left wing" but in reality are political opportunists using the issue of race to advance definite material interests. However, those hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens who participated in the anti-police violence protests in the US are totally different from the BLM leaders. They were motivated by a fight for justice and equality.
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | BLM has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism is based on class, not on race. The leaders of BLM are pseudo-lefts, they claim to be "left wing" but in reality are political opportunists using the issue of race to advance definite material interests. However, those hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens who participated in the anti-police violence protests in the US are totally different from the BLM leaders. They were motivated by a fight for justice and equality. |
We are getting way off topic here but the ordinary people who were participating were being used even though they did not realise it. That process has been repeated by those seeking wealth or power on a large scale many times in the past and it will continue into the future. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Jezza wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Adz wrote: | | BLM is a socialist cult. |
Troll or fool? |
He isn't entirely wrong.
The organisation was founded by radical Marxists in the US who want to defund the police, destroy the nuclear family and overthrow capitalism. |
Maybe black folks being shot and killed overwhelmingly by white Cops, with no concequences, has a tad to do with it, to be fair. 
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Ronnie McKeowns boots wrote: | I think what Jezza was referring to were the left wing (yes, in some cases extreme left wing) political action groups that took the lead in organising the initial BLM protest rallies....and make no mistake, a lot of those people are sanctimonious dicks.
Fair to say the BLM movement has broad support though |
This. Pretty much sums up my thought.
I don't deny good people exist in the movement believing they're doing something good. I'm talking about the founders of the movement and what their goals are.
Black Lives Matter is a universal and acceptable idea. Black Lives Matter the organisation is a different story.
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Last edited by Jezza on Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I think MTTM’s explanation is more or less correct (though I’m not sure I’d use precisely the same descriptors). But I think it’s important to note that there’s a bit of sleight of hand from some others in trying to make the distinction between the ordinary protesters and the organisation, and that’s because the organisation – "Big BLM", if you like – is essentially irrelevant. What right-wing pundits are trying to do when they hype up BLM Lobbyist X being an anarcho-syndicalist (or whatever) is trying to make the protests as a whole seem like part of some sinister agenda. But the fact is that the BLM protests have always been more or less organic and disconnected from the associated lobby group. It is, first and foremost, a slogan that has been rallied around, and that is what gets so many people out on the streets, not being brainwashed by "the organisation".
I don’t want to cast aspersions on the people in the BLM lobby group (many of whom may well have good intentions), but from reading about similar situations like Occupy, the Women’s March and other popular movements that have ended up being instituted as an entity is that the self-appointed "leadership" has ended up being populated by assorted cranks and grifters trying to push niche agendas, and usually collapsed in a flaming, acrimonious heap. What they are not, by any means, is part of a communist plot or a threat to the nuclear family (lmao) – for better or for worse.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I have no doubt that if you look at any social movement, whether significant or otherwise, you will always find hangers-on who look to benefit or to take control or be "spokesperson" or whatever. The art is always in distinguishing between the important aspect of the movement and the arseholes that hang around it and off it. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | I think MTTM’s explanation is more or less correct (though I’m not sure I’d use precisely the same descriptors). But I think it’s important to note that there’s a bit of sleight of hand from some others in trying to make the distinction between the ordinary protesters and the organisation, and that’s because the organisation – "Big BLM", if you like – is essentially irrelevant. What right-wing pundits are trying to do when they hype up BLM Lobbyist X being an anarcho-syndicalist (or whatever) is trying to make the protests as a whole seem like part of some sinister agenda. But the fact is that the BLM protests have always been more or less organic and disconnected from the associated lobby group. It is, first and foremost, a slogan that has been rallied around, and that is what gets so many people out on the streets, not being brainwashed by "the organisation".
I don’t want to cast aspersions on the people in the BLM lobby group (many of whom may well have good intentions), but from reading about similar situations like Occupy, the Women’s March and other popular movements that have ended up being instituted as an entity is that the self-appointed "leadership" has ended up being populated by assorted cranks and grifters trying to push niche agendas, and usually collapsed in a flaming, acrimonious heap. What they are not, by any means, is part of a communist plot or a threat to the nuclear family (lmao) – for better or for worse. |
Very good post (you old commie) David
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I have no doubt that if you look at any social movement, whether significant or otherwise, you will always find hangers-on who look to benefit or to take control or be "spokesperson" or whatever. The art is always in distinguishing between the important aspect of the movement and the arseholes that hang around it and off it. |
Spot on P4S!!!! A superb comment. It's going straight into my little book of useful tenets!!  |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Some good comments. Also some that fit my rant in the Eddie proud thread. I would like to think that most of the protestors. Not the morons spoiling for a fight, we’re doing so because, well, Black Lives Matter.
And not just when it comes to cops, what ever colour they are, when it comes to shooting each other, when it comes to teachers in schools, I’m probably naive but I like to think there is at least some hope that people really are concerned about these things
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Speaking of cults! I think it's fair to say that the assorted gun enthusiasts of America and their political backers are a much better organised and more dangerous one than any supposed socialist conspiracy could ever be.
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Absolutely.
It also seems that what I wrote above (about the gulf between the straightforward demands of the grassroots movement and the murkier machinations of "Big BLM") has been well and truly borne out, unfortunately:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/01/black-lives-matter-finances.html
| Quote: | | There are, broadly speaking, two branches of activism. There are on-the-ground, grassroots organizers like Johnson, who work locally, passionately, with little money, often risking their lives and livelihood through their protests. And then there are the larger, more professionalized national groups with corporate donations and fund-raising power, whose high-profile leaders can garner lucrative speaking gigs and book deals. Tensions between the two paths have existed at least since the American civil-rights movement of the 1950s and ’60s. But social justice and modern civil rights have become increasingly fashionable in the ten years since Trayvon Martin’s death, and more money than ever has flowed to the most visible groups. They have reaped tens of millions of dollars, while some local organizers stretched themselves to the brink of homelessness. Even as national groups have made overtures to work more closely with community organizers, activists in the latter camp have become concerned that their work is being co-opted by profiteers. This decades-old divide now exists in extreme form within Black Lives Matter. It is simultaneously a decentralized coalition of local organizers who eke out progress city by city, dollar by dollar, and an opaque nonprofit entity, well capitalized and friendly with corporations. |
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