| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
Get your facts right.
We already changed the date.
For many, many years we celebrated the Australia Day Long Weekend. These last few years, redneck "patriots" changed the observance day to the 26th January regardless of the day of the week on which it falls. It always used to be celebrated on a Monday, and it was one of the Grand Aussie Traditions, the last chance to go bush or take the kids to the beach before the yearly grind of school and work set in again. But the redneck lobby changed the date. Bastards.
Meanwhile, we see the following from a competent pollster:
| Roy Morgan wrote: |
A majority of Australians (59%) want January 26 known as ‘Australia Day’ however a large 41% say it should be called ‘Invasion Day’ according to special Roy Morgan Snap SMS survey conducted on Monday January 25, 2021. Victorians are divided 50-50 on the name to call the day Captain Arthur Phillip arrived in Port Jackson on January 26, 1788, while in all other states majorities want January 26 known as ‘Australia Day’. There is quite a gender difference on the question with men favouring January 26 being known as ‘Australia Day’ rather than ‘Invasion Day’ by a margin of almost 2:1 (66% cf. 34%). In contrast, Australia’s women are almost evenly split on the question with a narrow majority of 53% in favour of January 26 being known as ‘Australia Day’ compared to 47% saying it should be known as ‘Invasion Day’.
|
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
 |
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^
Really? get my facts straight?
1 irrelevant fact and you quote the same pollster that Eddie quoted but somehow when you quote them they become competent?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | Assuming changing the date is an easy fix is assuming that the Indigenous population is homogeneous when they are far from it. There are a multitude of different nations from different areas with different cultures and within that different people. Assuming that all Indigenous people find the date offensive is as racist as assuming that all white people don't and as stupid as assuming all Europeans have common culture and values.
yes there is a cohort of Indigenous people who are offended that the anniversary of the beginning of their dispossession and other hardships is celebrated as our national day.
There is another cohort who want to move forward and are comfortable with the date and happy to celebrate on it provided that there is due acknowledgement of the past, not airbrushing of it. Some of these get distressed by the actions of protestors
A third cohort don't really care about the date as it's a far lower priority than things like constitutional recognition, a treaty, a genuine national reconciliation action plan and indigenous voice
A fourth cohort couldn't give a rat fvck about Australia day or what date it's on as they're more focused on day to day concerns like poverty, substance abuse, sexual abuse, family violence, youth incarceration etc.
The first cohort gets all the publicity as their activists got latched onto by the green left, they do their protest marches and media gets filled with debates that people are weary off and becoming scared to participate in but the other 3 are not necessarily less significant in size, just in voice.
Personally I'm open to changing the date if that's the best outcome, but not at the behest of white bandwagoners who's actual interaction with Indigenous people is limited to owning a copy of Storm Boy. Finish the current work of creating an Indigenous advisory voice to federal parliament, use them to access a range of Indigenous opinions, come up with some options and put it to the people via a plebiscite. |
More importantly, enact the "Uluru Statement"
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The fact that redneck "patriots" recently changed the date we celebrate Australia Day is irrelevant to a discussion about changing the date
Far out.
(Not that I quoted sensible, verifiable mainstream numbers. Unlike the tiny-sample-nonsense Eddie parroted.)
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Most people don't care about much unless annoyed, so I don't think polls get you far on future concepts. The opposite, in fact.
My sense is that the symbolic removal of the bloody Union Jack from the flag might need to precede everything because it makes a mockery of 21st century Australia, and is hopelessly outdated. Living here, it looks like something from a Fawlty Towers episode; a bizarre colonial spoof planted on a hillside in Torquay to greet special visitors from Australia (Basil quickly throws together a Union Jack and the Southern Cross, and there it is).
I don't know how things come together, and maybe generational change fixes it, but the country needs to grow up at some point. Perhaps that won't happen until it is safely embedded in a trading block rather than clinging to the master's coat tails.
But for now proper inclusion is a first step, even if it involves a promise to mourn/celebrate with Aboriginal peoples as part of the day, and look for a new concept over time. (And make it a bloody roving Monday like every other sensible holiday if you can).
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Tannin wrote: | The fact that redneck "patriots" recently changed the date we celebrate Australia Day is irrelevant to a discussion about changing the date
|
Sorry, I didn't realise you considered Keating to be a redneck patriot.
Any danger of talking about moving forward instead of being stuck in the past?
Nup, didn't think so.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| pietillidie wrote: | | Most people don't care about much unless annoyed, so I don't think polls get you far on future concepts. The opposite, in fact. |
Yet same-sex marriage polled in the 60–75% range for years before it was enacted. That was a different issue for several key reasons, but it does suggest there that the dominant sensibility of the undecideds was "why not?" rather than "why should we?" – which says a lot about the prospect of a popular mandate here, if nothing else.
Otherwise I agree that it would be good to update the flag too, but the NZ experience – from a country that is arguably much less submissive – suggests that that might be easier said than done. Australia Day is the one that seems to me like the low-hanging fruit in this realm.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
|
|
|
|
eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Tannin wrote: | The fact that redneck "patriots" recently changed the date we celebrate Australia Day is irrelevant to a discussion about changing the date
Far out.
(Not that I quoted sensible, verifiable mainstream numbers. Unlike the tiny-sample-nonsense Eddie parroted.) |
You quoted the exact same poll... |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Most people don't care about much unless annoyed, so I don't think polls get you far on future concepts. The opposite, in fact. |
Yet same-sex marriage polled in the 60–75% range for years before it was enacted. That was a different issue for several key reasons, but it does suggest there that the dominant sensibility of the undecideds was "why not?" rather than "why should we?" – which says a lot about the prospect of a popular mandate here, if nothing else.
Otherwise I agree that it would be good to update the flag too, but the NZ experience – from a country that is arguably much less submissive – suggests that that might be easier said than done. Australia Day is the one that seems to me like the low-hanging fruit in this realm. |
True, although from memory same-sex marriage was long accepted before people started getting irritated enough to voice that opinion and override the twats opposing it. Much like Brexiters and Trump's cult getting the jump on people, it takes considerable motivation to get people to bother getting in the mud to oppose nutters. That's my theory, anyhow.
I'm obviously out of touch with the Aussie sentiment on the ground, so you're probably right. Certainly living here and looking back from the outside makes the flag more cringeworthy than ever. If Scotland leaves the UK Australia will still keep the Cross of St. Andrew in the Union Jack on the flag, let alone remove the entire thing 
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
|
Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| eddiesmith wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | The fact that redneck "patriots" recently changed the date we celebrate Australia Day is irrelevant to a discussion about changing the date
Far out.
(Not that I quoted sensible, verifiable mainstream numbers. Unlike the tiny-sample-nonsense Eddie parroted.) |
You quoted the exact same poll... |
Duhhh. Read my lips.
I provided sensible, verifiable information provided by that poll. Large numbers. Reliable. Not freak outliers from a sample of three.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | Any danger of talking about moving forward instead of being stuck in the past?
Nup, didn't think so. |
You are the one who is stuck on the date and doesn't want to move forward.
Simply make it the last Monday in January.
Fixed.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Would anyone really be satisfied with that? I doubt it. January 26ish is still commemorating the same thing, i.e. the colonisation of this land by another country that we are supposedly now independent from.
For me, the obvious candidate is 3 March: the date Australia finally cut its last (functional) apron strings to the UK and actually became a fully independent, sovereign nation. What more symbolic representation could there be of the nation that we are and the nation that we actually want to be in future?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Act_1986
| Quote: | | The Australia Act (Cth and UK) eliminated the remaining possibilities for the UK to legislate with effect in Australia, for the UK to be involved in Australian government, and for an appeal from any Australian court to a British court. This formally separated all legal ties between Australia and the United Kingdom. |
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
that makes a lot of sense.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Any danger of talking about moving forward instead of being stuck in the past?
Nup, didn't think so. |
You are the one who is stuck on the date and doesn't want to move forward.
Simply make it the last Monday in January.
Fixed. |
No, I proposed a consultative process with Indigenous people to firstly clarify whether the date is really a problem and if so to develop suitable options.
You, the old white man, just decide we don't need to consult, it is a problem and if we go back to the 80's it's all fixed
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
