 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| This one was never a waste of time - it has driven a wedge through the Republican party. Eventually, they'll realize that the loony fringe Trump represents is unelectable. They need some sensible people, as well as the neo-Nazis. |
|
|
|
 |
Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ It won't drive a wedge. The NeoCons are a minority within the party.
Most of the party and its supporters still back Trump.
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Time will tell, Jezza. He left office less than a month ago. Let's see how it looks as the polling develops. The question is not how delusional the party is - it's how delusional the electorate is. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Can someone w ho thinks that the impeachment proceedings weren't a waste of time, please explain what they think was achieved?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | This one was never a waste of time - it has driven a wedge through the Republican party. Eventually, they'll realize that the loony fringe Trump represents is unelectable. They need some sensible people, as well as the neo-Nazis. |
The Republican Party only has to lose 5% or 10% of its traditional conservative supporters and it‘ll be dead meat.It’ll never win the Presidency or control the Congress again.That’s quite possible with Trump and his crazies continually driving conservatives away from the party. |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^^ Stui, this is some of what I've said about it in this thread:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | These things, even without conviction by the Senate, are important. They cast light on that which occurred and force the remaining neo-Nazis in the Republican Party to hoist their colours to the mast. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Just for clarity, Trump is already impeached. Twice - the question some of you are turning your attention to is the question whether the Senate will convict him on the charges. Chances are he won't be - no President has ever been found guilty by the Senate. (Trump will, of course, become just the second American President in history to have suffered a Senate majority voting in favour of his removal from office.) It is, however, the process that's important. Winning the vote is only of significance to people who think that political battles of any significance are "won" or "lost" with a particular vote. Let's just wait and see how this all plays out for Trump and the Republicans. The question isn't whether the Senate disqualifies him from office. Rather, it is how much damage the process does to him and his fortunes (you don't have to be convicted for people to stop playing nicely with you) and to the Republican Party. As to the latter, Mitch has said they can exercise a conscience vote. If enough Senate Republicans were to find a conscience to exercise, the incompatibility with their personal metabolisms would likely cause mass spontaneous combustion. Or an extinction event. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ I don't think anyone really believes that 17 Republicans will vote to convict (although it would, of course, be beyond hilarious if they did). It's the potential political consequence of Republicans being compelled to take a position that makes this interesting. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/09/trump-impeachment-senate-vote-trial
The Senate voted that the trial is constitutional. 6 Republicans sided with the Democrats on that question. Next comes the interesting part. As I have previously said, it's one thing to say that he shouldn't be convicted because "we lack jurisdiction" - it's another thing altogether to say that he shouldn't be convicted because what he did wasn't actually treasonous. Interesting times. The substantive trial - and the coverage of Republican voting on it - could do considerable and lasting damage to the Republican Party amongst the ranks of those they need to woo to get back into power. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | And here's an opinion poll (Gallup) that suggests that Republican approval is slipping, even amongst Republicans: https://news.gallup.com/poll/329561/gop-image-slides-giving-democrats-strong-advantage.aspx
It may be just temporary, of course - but that's the real issue about the present trial - can the Republicans survive this without imploding politically?
The parties were neck and neck on favourability before the election but the Democrats were apparently 11% ahead by the start of February 2021. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ ... as the Republican Party tries to scrape the thing it stood in just outside the front door from the sole of its shoe. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | This one was never a waste of time - it has driven a wedge through the Republican party. Eventually, they'll realize that the loony fringe Trump represents is unelectable. They need some sensible people, as well as the neo-Nazis. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Time will tell, Jezza. He left office less than a month ago. Let's see how it looks as the polling develops. The question is not how delusional the party is - it's how delusional the electorate is. |
You're welcome to disagree - but that's my view. No-one would have started this process if they thought it was "about" convicting Trump. |
|
|
|
|
What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| doriswilgus wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | This one was never a waste of time - it has driven a wedge through the Republican party. Eventually, they'll realize that the loony fringe Trump represents is unelectable. They need some sensible people, as well as the neo-Nazis. |
The Republican Party only has to lose 5% or 10% of its traditional conservative supporters and it‘ll be dead meat.It’ll never win the Presidency or control the Congress again.That’s quite possible with Trump and his crazies continually driving conservatives away from the party. |
Similarly, how many democrats wont vote next time as they only voted to spite Trump. If the Dems voters only drop off a few percent, the Republicans regain the Presidency. |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | Can someone w ho thinks that the impeachment proceedings weren't a waste of time, please explain what they think was achieved? |
It's so obvious it doesn't need repeating. At least I would've thought.
A majority voted to impeach the creep. That's still a strong message.
Criminal negligence and violent recklessness has consequences even if half of the senate and most of an entire party is derelict and cowardly.
The deranged mental case wrecker has now been marked off as highly abnormal, being impeached twice by the house. Line in sand drawn.
Thugs who ride an outdated constitution protected by an outdated Executive still face consequences even if rendered toothless by cowardly partisans with Stockholm Syndrome.
People got to reflect on the disastrous and deadly consequences of demagoguery, without waving it away with the news cycle. It is real. Trump's behaviour is real. The wreckage of Trump was not an ethereal social media game without real world analogue, which is Trump's favourite gaslighting technique.
People got to reflect on the idiotic literalistic devotion to ancient books, customs and processes, and to see they are inadequate for dealing with certain types of democratic poison.
More people were made even sicker by that vile piece of filth, maintaining a rage in the sane needed to keep him and his dangerous cult at bay. As explained repeatedly, psychopaths have an advantage because the sane don't like getting in the filth with them until thoroughly disgusted into action.
The world knows what they saw from Trump was farcical, embarrassing and dangerous. At least a percentage of the country adheres to basic democratic and legal norms, even if certain groups are batshit mental and backwards. Another line in the sand.
The creepy GOP complicity in Trump's wreckage was underscored. This is an entire party which is in thrall to violent ideology, demagoguery, corruption and backward cringeworthy culture.
The creepy white evangelical Christian devotion to Trump, another example of a delusional ethereal commitment trapped in fantasy and fiction, has deadly real world consequences that have nothing at all to do with angelic beings and everything to do with earthly thugs and scumbags.
Creepy right militias were further exposed as the actual real world threat they are. Again, this is not an internet game.
I could find another ten. If you can't think of any yourself you must be one of the over-immersed who think this is an ethereal 'choose your own adventure story' without real-world referents and consequences. Trump was deadly, his cult is dangerous, the US is a great risk and increasing cost to us all.
Marking off Trump, his cult, the cowardly GOP and the deficiencies of outmoded books and processes this way was the best form of ring fencing available, despite its obvious deficiencies. The best drug about, however imperfect, for keeping the cancer of authoritarian fasco-populism and its enablers at bay, at least for now.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
"Convicted or not, Trump is history – it's Biden who's changing America"
"Republican infighting has created a political void into which Democrats are stepping with far-reaching reforms"
"While most of official Washington has been focused on the Senate impeachment trial, another part of Washington is preparing the most far-ranging changes in American social policy in a generation"....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/trump-impeachment-biden-american-rescue-plan-robert-reich
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | Can someone w ho thinks that the impeachment proceedings weren't a waste of time, please explain what they think was achieved? |
A crime was committed. The worst of all possible crimes, an attempt to destroy democracy itself. Failing to prosecute that crime is unthinkable.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
But that is exactly what has happened. He's been charged by the Democrat controlled house and acquitted in the Senate.
All of the reasons P4S provided are essestially about posturing. Trump was acquitted, retains all of the benefits of being an ex-POTUS and is eligible to run again in 4 years.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The fact that 43 selfish cowards in the Senate voted to acquit a traitor is unfortunate and was fairly predictable. But the attempt had to be made. And the result was very clear: a strong majority, including not a few members of his own party voted to find Trump guilty.
Now we pass over to the other prosecutions, civil and criminal. These will be tried by real judged in real courts, and Trump is going down.
It will end up the same as Al Capone: the most brazen gangster in US history, guilty of a host of crimes. In the end, they got him and he went to jail - on the same charge Trump is going down on: tax evasion.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | But that is exactly what has happened. He's been charged by the Democrat controlled house and acquitted in the Senate.
All of the reasons P4S provided are essestially about posturing. Trump was acquitted, retains all of the benefits of being an ex-POTUS and is eligible to run again in 4 years. |
"Posturing"? It's a political issue - it has political consequences. |
|
|
|
|
Sicks Bux 
Hal 2003-2019
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Me Island Ome
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Looking forward to moving on from Trump and putting the focus on the Biden administration. Kinda glad Trump isn't on twitter anymore because his tweets would've continued to be used to distract people from scrutinising the Democrats.
_________________
The beatings will continue until moral improves. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Even though Trump's no longer on Twitter, he's still causing some very welcome internecine havoc:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-mcconnell-gop-attack-b1803187.html
| Quote: | “Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again,” said Mr Trump.
The former president said that the GOP would “never again be respected or strong” with Mr McConnell “at its helm.” |
Not only is it delightful to see two of the Republican Party's most odious – and powerful – figures at each other's throats, it bodes poorly for their chances in the next few years if the party is going to be split between the (presumably majority) Trump loyalists and everyone else who hasn't drunk the Q kool-aid. The effect all this will have on the 2022 midterms will certainly be interesting, let alone the presidential primary that follows. Expect things to get very ugly.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
