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Biden presidency and 2024 election campaign

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:38 am
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John Oliver on the fascist Christian Taliban Project 2025 should Trump win, or refuse to lose:

https://youtu.be/nNtjygH8tKo?feature=shared

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:58 pm
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Great stuff and very informative, thanks PTID! Hopefully we'll never find out what he would actually do if he got the power to enact all this...
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:40 pm
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David wrote:
Great stuff and very informative, thanks PTID! Hopefully we'll never find out what he would actually do if he got the power to enact all this...


I know you're not that thick to believe Trump would enact every part of, or any of, Project 2025.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:55 am
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What'sinaname wrote:
David wrote:
Great stuff and very informative, thanks PTID! Hopefully we'll never find out what he would actually do if he got the power to enact all this...


I know you're not that thick to believe Trump would enact every part of, or any of, Project 2025.

Now there's a novel reason for clinging to the burnt orange diaper stool. A vote for a serially bankrupt, world-record lying, sexually assaulting fraud and cheap crook with a severe malignant personality disorder who has gun-toting fasco-religious crazies as followers, who never does the right thing even by the people who adore him, is a show of good judgement because in any case, he'll be ineffective and is lying about his policy intentions!

5D chess indeed.

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:08 am
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What'sinaname wrote:
David wrote:
Great stuff and very informative, thanks PTID! Hopefully we'll never find out what he would actually do if he got the power to enact all this...


I know you're not that thick to believe Trump would enact every part of, or any of, Project 2025.


I’m usually the last to buy into lib hysteria around Trump, but I think this is worth paying attention to. Not sure if you watched the clip, but Oliver acknowledges that last term there was a substantial gap between what Trump wanted to or said he would do and what he actually did. But he also explains why that happened and makes a good case for why this might serve as a framework for his agenda this time around.

And btw the Liberal Party may never follow IPA policy recommendations to the letter, but Abbott and Hockey certainly tried their hardest in the 2014 budget. (We really ought to be more grateful to Clive Palmer and his stooges for torpedoing that.) And Trump is a great deal more of an empty vessel with far fewer pretensions about running a functional government, so who he has in his ear " and it will be the true believers who show the most loyalty to him " will hold a great deal of sway.

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:04 pm
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pietillidie wrote:
What'sinaname wrote:
David wrote:
Great stuff and very informative, thanks PTID! Hopefully we'll never find out what he would actually do if he got the power to enact all this...


I know you're not that thick to believe Trump would enact every part of, or any of, Project 2025.

Now there's a novel reason for clinging to the burnt orange diaper stool. A vote for a serially bankrupt, world-record lying, sexually assaulting fraud and cheap crook with a severe malignant personality disorder who has gun-toting fasco-religious crazies as followers, who never does the right thing even by the people who adore him, is a show of good judgement because in any case, he'll be ineffective and is lying about his policy intentions!

5D chess indeed.
T

TDS much?

Or is it Trump lives rent free?

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:15 pm
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David wrote:
What'sinaname wrote:
David wrote:
Great stuff and very informative, thanks PTID! Hopefully we'll never find out what he would actually do if he got the power to enact all this...


I know you're not that thick to believe Trump would enact every part of, or any of, Project 2025.


I’m usually the last to buy into lib hysteria around Trump, but I think this is worth paying attention to. Not sure if you watched the clip, but Oliver acknowledges that last term there was a substantial gap between what Trump wanted to or said he would do and what he actually did. But he also explains why that happened and makes a good case for why this might serve as a framework for his agenda this time around.

And btw the Liberal Party may never follow IPA policy recommendations to the letter, but Abbott and Hockey certainly tried their hardest in the 2014 budget. (We really ought to be more grateful to Clive Palmer and his stooges for torpedoing that.) And Trump is a great deal more of an empty vessel with far fewer pretensions about running a functional government, so who he has in his ear " and it will be the true believers who show the most loyalty to him " will hold a great deal of sway.


If you're going to put that much stock in Oliver, you may do the same with Shapiro.

Oliver is strongly left biased and bases his satirical comedy on conservative issues. His views are as biased and one-sided as Shapiros.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:27 pm
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That Project 2025 is some scary shit and Trump is just crazy enough to try it. What does he have to lose? If he gets elected again it's the last time, you don't get 3 terms so go hard for the one term and let others sweep up the eggshells afterwards.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:01 pm
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What'sinaname wrote:
If you're going to put that much stock in Oliver, you may do the same with Shapiro.


Is that how any intelligent person you know determines anything? How about taking responsibility, reading Shapiro, and seeing if he has any information or critique that informs what Oliver has outlined? You could even consult the primary material to which Oliver refers yourself.

You don't even comprehend your own cut-and-paste Facebook quips:

What'sinaname wrote:
TDS much? Or is it Trump lives rent free?

I mean, really? Do you even have the slightest grasp of the subject matter here? The stability and sanity of the superpower isn't an episode of Love Island, FFS.

We're talking about the seriously mentally ill potential executive of the presidential system of the overwhelming superpower, who has an entire party made up considerably of religious crazies in his thrall. The very superpower that can start and end wars, start and end massive financial crises, and significantly impact all kinds of trillion-dollar concerns from global warming to the behaviour of dangerous regimes, to your own national and regional security.

Does risk management even have an entry in your mental dictionary?

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:38 am
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Lol that you think Biden and the Dems are bringing stability or sanity both on a domestic and international front.
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:13 pm
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What'sinaname wrote:
Lol that you think Biden and the Dems are bringing stability or sanity both on a domestic and international front.

Once again, WIAN actually nails it.
The Democrats are just as insane as the Republicans.
(DISCLAIMER: This does NOT mean that I support WIAN's political views in any way. He is a right wing extremist. But every cstopped clock is right twice a day, and this occurs periodically as well. So i wll expect every 12 hours or so a correct point to be made by WiAN, far more so than from any of the pro-Democrat posters here.)

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pietillidie 



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:59 am
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^Who on earth are these people on Nick's who are 'pro-Democrat'? WPT is probably the person who has most overtly expressed support for the Dems as a party from afar, but he might deny that for all we know.

Are you sure you're not purposely conflating the necessary ranking of preferences with 'support'? Even Chomsky supports a 'tactical voting' utility calculation, and says so very clearly every election.

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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:05 am
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pietillidie wrote:
^Who on earth are these people on Nick's who are 'pro-Democrat'? WPT is probably the person who has most overtly expressed support for the Dems as a party from afar, but he might deny that for all we know.

Are you sure you're not purposely conflating the necessary ranking of preferences with 'support'? Even Chomsky supports a 'tactical voting' utility calculation, and says so very clearly every election.

Whoever suggests that Biden is a "lesser evil" to Trump is pro-Democrat. I think that includes you.

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:22 am
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In that case it includes me, too, and even quite a few leftists who will not even be voting for him. There’s a whole spectrum running from ardent support to total disgust and apathy that doesn’t require acting as if both parties pose an exactly equal threat or risk. And in this case, much as we loathe Biden and may even see him as being as bad as (or worse than) Trump in terms of foreign policy, the potential consequences of a Trump/Republican victory on a domestic front are quite significantly different than a second Biden term " as I think you yourself have acknowledged in the past.

I say all that in full knowledge of the central failing of lesser-evilism in terms of how it props up corrupt two-party systems, erodes democracy and enables the rightward drift that creates Trump and people like him. But sometimes we don’t get to play the long game, and have to deal pragmatically with the choice in front of us. And accelerationism is and always has been a fool’s errand.

For what it’s worth, I would not vote for Starmer’s Labour in the UK (and that’s a non-preferential voting system). But I would most likely vote for Biden in the US this election, much as I would choose Biden if he were running against Hitler in 1933 or against Pinochet in 1988. Trump may not be nearly as bad as those two, but I hope the point is clear here: there are cases where lesser-evilism is tactically warranted.

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Last edited by David on Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:43 am; edited 2 times in total
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:41 am
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^As David can vouch, I've written extensively about my approach. I'm overwhelmingly concerned with competition maximisation and risk management, wherever the chips of that analysis fall at the time.

David too has a very complex approach.

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