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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | Oh, I have no doubt there are plenty of MAGA-hat-wearing women cheering it on. It’s an ideology of hatred and dehumanisation that’s the problem.
Can’t help but wonder if rusted-on Republican voters ever read stories like this and think, for just a moment: "Are we the baddies?"
https://youtu.be/ToKcmnrE5oY |
You think so?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4GxbdEmpPI&feature=youtu.be
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Cute youtube videos aside, more than 2 million illegals have crossed the US border by that Biden / Harris have failed to stop. It's expected to be 2.3 million by the end of the year which is up from last year's record of 1.7 million illegals.
It's a problem created by the current Government, but they are too busy tearing down statues of historical oppressive white men to be worried about today's problems.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Firstly, it's nonsense to say that the problem is "created" by the government. While numbers have fluctuated over the years and decreased substantially under Obama and Trump, hundreds of thousands of undocumented migrants have been trying to cross America's southern border every year for decades, and numbers were in the 1.6/1.7 million range under Reagan and Clinton too. Governments can enact various deterrence policies, but nothing will ever stop large numbers of border crossings (short of global attempts to actually improve living conditions in Latin America, but that's another question).
When it comes to deterrence, it's pretty selective to focus solely on what Biden is or isn't doing. State governments have plenty of jurisdiction over border crossings too, and governors like Greg Abbott from Texas have been doing everything in their power to deter border crossings (see: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/28/greg-abbott-border-migrants/); but people keep coming – which suggests that "push" rather than "pull" factors may be more at play here:
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/rising-border-encounters-in-2021
| Quote: | The reasons that migrants chose to come to the border in 2021 are as varied at the people themselves. Many individuals from Guatemala and Honduras left because of growing food instability following years of drought and two major hurricanes which hit the countries in 2020 and devastated cropland. In March 2021, the World Food Program declared that millions of Hondurans and Guatemalans were in a nationwide “Crisis level” for food insecurity, with nearly one million people nearing the level of a famine. Violence and impunity also continued to be an issue throughout the region, causing many to leave.
The continuing effects of the COVID-19 pandemic have also fueled migration across the hemisphere, especially among refugees who had previously been waiting in other countries. Due to rising anti-immigrant sentiment and economic insecurity resulting from the pandemic, tens of thousands of Venezuelan and Haitian refugees living in South America became displaced from countries in which they had already sought refuge. Many saw the United States as their best chance to find any kind of permanent security.
Still others left due to escalating political instability and persecution in their home countries. For example, arrivals of Nicaraguans rose dramatically throughout the year as the government of Daniel Ortega cracked down politically and jailed opponents. Asylum seekers from Cuba also increased significantly through 2021, following mass political protests throughout the country and a corresponding crackdown.
But not all those who became displaced in 2020 and 2021 made their way to the United States. The entire region saw rising numbers of refugees. In Costa Rica, a record 53,000 Nicaraguans sought asylum in 2021, compared to 87,000 who sought asylum in the United States. In Mexico, a record 131, 448 people applied for asylum.
Thus, despite the focus on the United States and on the actions of President Biden, migration increased across the entire hemisphere in 2021. |
And, getting back to that Texas Tribune article, policy hasn't actually changed substantially under Biden, in any case:
| Quote: | | While Abbott has pointed to Biden as the reason for the increase in migrants at the border, court rulings have largely left Trump’s most significant immigration restrictions intact until recently. Biden tried to do away with Title 42, a pandemic-era public health order that immigration authorities used to turn away migrants, including asylum-seekers, at the border. A federal judge blocked that move in May, and the program has remained in place. |
One notable policy change may, however, help explain some of the rising numbers, but not necessarily for the reason Republicans are suggesting:
| Quote: | Meanwhile, the Biden administration scored a recent win this summer when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in June that it could do away with the Trump-era “remain in Mexico” policy, which required some asylum-seekers to wait in Mexico for a decision on their applications for protection in the U.S. Biden officially lifted the policy in August.
[…]
Migrant encounters are only one measure of the impact of an immigration policy, and an imperfect one at that because the state can not control external factors that affect when migrants will attempt to cross the border. They also do not measure how many people cross the border without detection.
And importantly, encounters include migrants who repeatedly attempt to cross the border more than once as separate encounters, which inflates the number of unique migrants trying to cross the border.
That has especially been the case under Trump-era programs like Title 42 and remain in Mexico. Both programs allowed immigration officials to send migrants back to Mexico rapidly, leading to an increase in attempts to cross by the same person. During fiscal year 2021, 27% of migrant encounters were with people who had already tried to enter the country at least once during the same fiscal year, according to CBP. |
As for the bolded section above, there's the old reportage/incidence paradox at play here: it's entirely possible that radically stepping up border patrols, as governors like Abbott have been doing, is contributing to these higher number of "encounters" – which is to say, more people are getting caught, and fewer are getting through undetected.
More data and research here:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/09/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-7-charts/
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | Firstly, it's nonsense to say that the problem is "created" by the government. …../ |
Indeed. It merely shows that whatsinaname likes the Murdoch press.
It’s simplistic and foolish in the extreme to say that Governments cause the current migration which one would expect from MAGA supports or nut jobs from the GOP.
The issues are complex and that was an excellent response David to that rubbish.
There are many episodes on This American Life that go to the issues regarding the migration and the victims stuck at the border. This is one of them:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/770/my-lying-eyes/act-two-11
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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lazzadesilva 
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
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| watt price tully wrote: | | one would expect from MAGA supports or nut jobs from the GOP. |
What’s the difference? Aren’t they the same group of morons?
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I term the current Collingwood attack based strategy “Unceasing Waves” like on a stormy and windy day with rough seas. A Perfect Storm ☔️ |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| lazzadesilva wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | one would expect from MAGA supports or nut jobs from the GOP. |
What’s the difference? Aren’t they the same group of morons? |
Ur right, it ought to have been and other nut jobs not or 😊😉
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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No David, the States actually have very little authority over immigration. It’s a Federal Government responsibility.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/07/texas-greg-abbott-state-police-border/
Biden and Harris are ignoring the border crisis. I suspect because it was a big part of Trump’s appeal so they are doing a complete 180 rather than softening the hard edges of Trump but maintaining stricter borders. FFS Harris didn’t even visit the right Town when she visited the Southern border to show her support for America.
Don’t get me wrong, Trump is incompetent. But Biden is an equally incompetent. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| In a show of rare idiocy, the Republicans are ripping themselves apart over the appointment of a speaker in the House. I understand that this the first time in a century that the matter hasn't been decided in the first round of voting. Three rounds of voting were conducted today and the minority Democrat led the vote in all 3. If the extreme right doesn't buckle and get behind the slightly-less-extreme right (ie McCarthy), I suppose there is some weird (albeit very remote) prospect of the Democrat minority leader being made Speaker, since one assumes the sane Republicans (is that an oxymoron?) won't back a neo-fascist. |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Not all Republicans are right-wing nutjobs, just as not all Greens are identity-politics nutcases.
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kill for collingwood! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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From a distance, it does seem like it's a pretty hard time for anyone with a shred of reasonability to be in the Republican Party right now, though. There are certain basic litmus tests that a great many of them have failed of late.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| roar wrote: | | Not all Republicans are right-wing nutjobs, just as not all Greens are identity-politics nutcases. |
You might wish to revisit this, the GOP just voted in an election denier to be speaker and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. The Author is more or less a moderate Republican supporter:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/11/house-republicans-no-moderates/
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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