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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:25 am
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there is no doubt in my mind He could have prevented, or at least contained what happened at the capitol building, he should be in jail, worse, what worries me is this will just show the people that they can get through the defences with relatively no force stopping them, so what next? I have to admit i am shocked by the lengths they have gone to and the crazy statements coming out of the division, and im truly wondering if ill ever get back there. Canada is looking so good right now. Maybe if we drive down to Montana and avoid any big towns! I just want to go back and see a lot more of Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Park.

Ive had my own shit on social media, i dont say squat now, its just not worth it, people say things they would never say to your face, and politics... i have a bunch of new "friends' from a photography site, and a couple are trump supporters, their posts are mind blowing. they seem like, well normal people! As an aside after the last shit there will be no more flags on the balcony (my eldest went apeshit when he stuck a trump flag up at christmas, she literally cut the cable ties and let it drop!!) and he reckons he will ditch all the tshirts!!

Social Media if not used correctly or appropriately is the bane of society.

Lock him up, no need to ban him, he cant be a twit from jail!

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:28 am
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Dave The Man wrote:
I find Social Media is mostly full of Dickheads


No more than every day life is, its just the noisy wheels are always the most prominent. And the most damaged. Dont engage, keep your dignity, block. nothing better than seeing someones true colours. The crap Trump is coming out with, i mean even his own party is turning on him, eventually for a lot the penny will drop...what the **** did we do to our country for 4 years!! its like the biggest baddest smuttiest reality show ever!

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:23 am
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think positive wrote:
As an aside after the last shit there will be no more flags on the balcony (my eldest went apeshit when he stuck a trump flag up at christmas, she literally cut the cable ties and let it drop!!)


Tell her she’s my new hero. Laughing I wish I had the balls to do that to my dad’s Trump paraphernalia!

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:22 am
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David wrote:
think positive wrote:
As an aside after the last shit there will be no more flags on the balcony (my eldest went apeshit when he stuck a trump flag up at christmas, she literally cut the cable ties and let it drop!!)


Tell her she’s my new hero. Laughing I wish I had the balls to do that to my dad’s Trump paraphernalia!


She can cook too, she just made me the bloody best thing ive tasted in a while for lunch, i got some skinny bruschetta things (as in thin slices) the other day, she toasted them and topped with smoked salmon, capers, red onion, bocconcini, cherry tomatoes and a splash of olive oil, i swear id eat it every day for the rest of my life and never have enough of it!!

she said thanks!! she working on the bank website in her tshirt and rugrat dinosaur pj shorts!! cheers!!

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:38 am
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What a legend! I just collaborated with Ingmar on some sugar-free ginger biscuits last night – they actually worked out okay, despite having to substitute half the ingredients. I'll make a gourmet chef of him yet!
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eddiesmith Taurus

Lets get ready to Rumble


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:07 pm
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Amazing, not one of those kill all cops posts been deleted or the person banned

Hypocrisy, just like how violent protest was good last year, bad this year...
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:42 am
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This is poking around one of the critical reasons why the discussion in the 21st century is very different from the inherited debate — the globalisation of perverse incentive:

Quote:
Mr. McGee is 26, a soft-spoken college student and an Army veteran from Augusta, Ga. Look at his Facebook activity today, and you’ll find a stream of pro-Trump fanfare and conspiracy theories.

But for years, his feed was unremarkable — a place to post photos of family and friends, musings about love and motivational advice.

Most of his posts received just a handful of likes and comments.

That changed after the presidential election, when he began posting about what he believed was suspicious activity around the vote.

He saw a sharp rise in engagement — more than 50 comments and nearly a dozen shares.

On Nov. 6, he wrote that he’d “rather die on my feet than live on my knees,” garnering 106 comments and 134 likes.

A post about Democrats supporting slavery in the 1800s received even more attention. Within weeks, he was committing nearly all his time to sharing what he learned from the Stop the Steal movement. He started a Facebook group, Win the Win, with the goal of overturning the election results. Tens of thousands of people joined in just weeks. Mr. McGee, who uses the pseudonym Dom Lucre on Facebook, wrote in the group that a “storm was coming,” a common QAnon reference, getting 440 comments and 1,500 likes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/opinion/facebook-far-right.html

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:12 am
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eddiesmith wrote:
Amazing, not one of those kill all cops posts been deleted or the person banned

Hypocrisy, just like how violent protest was good last year, bad this year...

No, sorry; that doesn't follow. They might agree 100% with you that it should be removed, but it hasn't registered on their radar as a matter of priority.

Do you have any sense of the volume of content on these sites? People build entire big data systems to analyse small fractions of total tweets. Sorry to break the news to you, but they don't actually 'see' what happens to be brought to your attention in their moderation queues.

"Remember eddiesmith of Croydon South? He just complained again. Quick, we don't want him to think we're hypocrites."

That particular content, like tonnes of other garbage, might not have even registered in their top 98% of takedown flags at any moment. You could probably sit there flagging it for an entire year screaming 'why are they not listening to me, Eddie Smith the Great!' and it still wouldn't meet the threshold necessary to be flagged for removal. There are all kinds of variables that go into the algorithms that power the filtration process.

Yes, but Trump.... Exactly; weighted by reach and network salience, anything Trump posts would register. (And which is why prominent figures also make good policy exemplars).

So no, it doesn't follow that it's hypocritical. It might just mean that their process is inadequate or limited.

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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:32 am
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Twitter is not consistent with its bans,

https://nypost.com/2021/01/12/the-threats-and-violence-twitter-wont-police/


if they have a computer algorithm and a policy that says 'no threats to kill' then its simple to code, even I could do it.


private void Ban User ()
{
if (User = #kill )

}
{
WarningsTextBlock.Text = ("user banned for threats to kill”)
}

{ else if (User = #murder)}

{
WarningsTextBlock.Text = ("user banned for threats to murder”)
}

return Ban User;
}


In the same way if I type in the 'N' word on this forum it will probably post 'I am racist" rather than the actual 'N' word. Not sure what would happen if I made a reference to a certain river in an African country (different spelling with one g)

An automated algorithm will always be consistent, twitter is not.

Insurance companies should send Jack Dorsey a bill for the estimated 1.5 billion in damages for the BLM / Antifa / MAGA insert whoever damaged property and assaulted people riots.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:46 am
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The site is now win the win 2021 the original was taken down, and omg that is gobsmacking Reading! They are $$%^%%$ nuts! Bit scary too, theshit about Biden’s day.
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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:23 am
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Pi wrote:
Twitter is not consistent with its bans,

https://nypost.com/2021/01/12/the-threats-and-violence-twitter-wont-police/


if they have a computer algorithm and a policy that says 'no threats to kill' then its simple to code, even I could do it.


private void Ban User ()
{
if (User = #kill )

}
{
WarningsTextBlock.Text = ("user banned for threats to kill”)
}

{ else if (User = #murder)}

{
WarningsTextBlock.Text = ("user banned for threats to murder”)
}

return Ban User;
}


That's actually a really terrible idea. You'd get people booted for jokes ("kill me now"), quoting other sources or even just for earnestly discussing stuff. Even for specific hashtags like #KillAllCops, at least half the people using it in the link you posted seem to be doing so to criticise it. No moderation can be that blunt.

The trouble is that more sophisticated moderation does require some human oversight, and that requires time and money. But it can be mandated; look at what happened to Pornhub a few weeks ago when an expose in The New York Times found that a large amount of non-consensual material was being uploaded: they were obliged to delete uploads from non-verified users in order to continue to operate, and ended up having to delete around 75% of the videos on their site, if I recall correctly. That would have been a huge blow financially, but that's the point of regulation: the law, or public pressure, can comply a company to do something that's not in its immediate financial interests but that is seen to serve some net good.

Pi wrote:
In the same way if I type in the 'N' word on this forum it will probably post 'I am racist" rather than the actual 'N' word. Not sure what would happen if I made a reference to a certain river in an African country (different spelling with one g)

An automated algorithm will always be consistent, twitter is not.


Word filters are a reasonably good (but not foolproof) way of removing, say, swear words from a platform, but I would shudder at the idea of any major social media site that levies suspensions or bans based on crude automated processes like that. We certainly don't do that here, though I do know people on Facebook who have had stuff randomly flagged and been suspended for indecipherable reasons (e.g. renaissance paintings), including for stuff that was posted years ago and apparently only just picked up now. That's pretty annoying and compounded by the fact that Facebook has no real appeal process or anyone you can speak to if a mistake has been made. Not sure that we would want to see more of that kind of thing on the big platforms – not that any of us gets a say in it either way!

(And no, of course we don't censor references to Niger and I hope no other site is dumb enough to do so either. Laughing But you might want to look into the famous "Scunthorphe problem" as an example of how filters can go awry.)

Pi wrote:
Insurance companies should send Jack Dorsey a bill for the estimated 1.5 billion in damages for the BLM / Antifa / MAGA insert whoever damaged property and assaulted people riots.


That's what's at the heart of the Section 230 debate, isn't it? Surprised nobody has brought that up yet in this thread; it's a drum Trump was beating hard up until recently. Basically, the situation at the moment is that social media companies in the US are not considered liable for what their users post (e.g. defamatory claims, hate speech, threats of violence, etc.) Trump sought to overturn it apparently for no other reason than to get back at Twitter and Facebook for putting warnings on his posts – but it was a strange cause because the inevitable consequence would be that social media companies would decide to engage in far more stringent moderation, and they probably would have been obliged to boot a consistent TOS-flouter like Trump (though they did in the end anyway). Perhaps in that scenario you would see a lot more filters and automated suspensions of the kind you suggest above.

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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:01 am
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^
I'm not suggesting the crude model for moderation is necessarily a good idea only that it exists. The fact is Twitter has a policy and is not consistent in how they apply it no matter how sophisticated or simple it may be.

The way they currently do it is down to the opinion of a small group of staff operating on a given day. At this point they are so bad at it they might as well use a simple word filter.

Social media companies have been dancing around the definition of being a publisher on one hand and then claiming they are only a platform like a telephone company on the other. The fact is they are both at this point; what workable legislation is there?.

Try saying drum Trump really quickly. Laughing

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:13 am
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Another question is: is consistency overrated? Maybe some (good) moderation is better than none?

As for legislation, I think this is where the "break up Facebook" crowd have a good point: these sites do kind of act as telephone companies, and have certainly replaced those services in many respects (in some cases quite literally, e.g. people now using Facebook Messenger instead of sending text messages). The fact that they are private, for-profit monopolies doesn't square with how we generally treat other providers and does suggest that some kind of interventionist response – whether it be expansion of antitrust laws or even nationalisation – needs to be considered. Not that there's any chance that a mainstream Democratic Party administration, whose members likely receive substantial funding from Silicon Valley, would ever be likely to consider anything so radical.

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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:14 am
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^
At this point facebook / twitter / amazon/ google are basically monopolies, so an antitrust case is probably inevitable; think of microsoft v netscape case but larger. Nationalization (shiver in fear and revulsion) is essentially creating a monopoly to squash political opposition.

Is consistency overrated? no; consistency is generally the basis for free speech and most legal systems.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:10 pm
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Pi wrote:
Twitter is not consistent with its bans,

https://nypost.com/2021/01/12/the-threats-and-violence-twitter-wont-police/

if they have a computer algorithm and a policy that says 'no threats to kill' then its simple to code, even I could do it.

You've gone ahead and made the identical error Eddie Smith made. To repeat: are Twitter inconsistent (i.e., biased) or inadequate in their moderation? In other words, do you have the statistical data showing bias, or do you simply have examples of an inadequate process that may or may not indicate something else?

Of course the process will be inadequate because Twitter will avoid the cost of paying for it to be better than required or necessary. Therefore, while you'll be able to find examples of all kinds of thing left unmoderated, until you've coded the content (i.e., identified and classified the content in a consistent way) and run the numbers on that coded content you won't know if those examples are biased in any particular direction.

I'm not saying I care and I'm not saying I like them or think they're righteous; I'm saying the claim is a non-sequitur.

And no, you couldn't code it because it has taken teams of the world's best computational linguists and machine learning specialists decades now to reach very modest levels of success in machine reading. Take the linguistic layer alone. Your example would block people saying not to do that, reports about others saying to or not to do that, irony using that but implying the complete opposite, and meanwhile miss every indirect or novel way of implying the very same thing, including in non-textual and mixed mode representations. And that's just the syntactic and semantic layer without considering prioritisation through reach and weight, legal requirements, legal requests, current risk assessments, and more, all of which are constrained by commercial considerations before you even get to political bias.

By the time they complete your imaginary 'consistent' mega blacklist, not only would it be 2069, but every second post about anything would be unintentionally filtered out.

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