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Social media and free speech

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:42 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
There is absolutely zero real justification for banning Trump


Repeated, blatant and persistent violation of the terms of service. That on its own is more than enough to get ANYONE banned.

Repeated calls to break the law and commit violent acts to further an antidemocratic political aim. This is incitement to terrorism. Yes, terrorism. See any dictionary. Violence with a political aim. That is what terrorism is. Look it up.

Repeated attempts to overturn the results of a democratic election.

Repeated, hysterical lies calculated to destroy the peaceful functioning of a democracy.

Incitement to overthrow the legitimate government of the United States. That is treason, plain and simple.

(There are probably more reasons, these are just the first ones that came to mind.)

Now when you say that (insert hate figure of choice from non-white country) still has a Twitter account, there are two questions. (i) Did this person break the terms of service or commit treason against his own country and its government? (ii) If "yes", why hasn't this person been booted too?

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Pies4shaw Leo



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:35 pm
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1. I have no idea why the split topic has been called "social media and free speech". Trump's use of social media has had nothing to do with "free speech" and everything to do with (a) dog-whistling to white supremacists; (b) spreading demonstrable untruths; and (c) inciting violence. Leaving powerful people to be "free" to speak lies will end our civilization. One must distinguish between the availability of open debate about the meaning of things that are true and closing off debate by relegating the truth in favour of convenient lies.

2. The businesses that banned Trump are not run by "socialists" (whether chardonnay-sipping or otherwise). They are run by the quintessential forces of modern capitalism. Theirs was a "business" decision, not a "political" one.

3. Following from 2, the deliberate business model of many large social media businesses has been to give voice to and amplify anti-democratic conspiracy and, in particular, extreme rightwing authoritarian lying. It would be great if social media closed down all the neo-Nazis - but it isn't going to - it makes too much money from them. Governments need to close them down - but that won't happen, either.

4. The suggestion that the decision to close down Trump and leave the Chinese Communist Party is a "political" one is so breathtakingly irrelevant that it defies belief. That is because, first, leaving an authoritarian megaphone for one entity doesn't mean that the decision to close down another was wrong - it just means they haven't gone far enough; and secondly, as has already been observed, this was the business act of cowards - they did this to Trump because history has already consigned him to irrelevance. The CCP is not irrelevant and these companies aren't going to tilt at that windmill. Further, and in any event, Trump presented (and his religious adherents continue to be) a threat to domestic peace in the US. The CCP does not.

5. Closing down Trump does not affect "free speech". He had nothing useful to "say" and nothing that he "said" - or did - had any content identifiable as genuine "speech". It was just crazed, dishonest, self-serving, authoritarian raving. All his "speech" did was mobilize anti-democratic forces by feeding them bovine dung and keeping them in the dark.
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:08 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
1. I have no idea


I agree

Quote:


2. The businesses that banned Trump are not run by "socialists" (whether chardonnay-sipping or otherwise). They are run by the quintessential forces of modern capitalism.


Chardonnay Socialist - Def:
Quote:
A person who espouses socialist ideals while enjoying a wealthy and luxurious lifestyle.


https://www.lexico.com/definition/chardonnay_socialist

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Pies4shaw Leo



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:21 pm
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It's time to stop taking the cheap shots and engage with the debate, Stui.

As for the rest of it, your post misses the bus - these people are not "espousing socialist ideals", which is why they cannot be "chardonnay socialists". If you think I am wrong about that, tell me what "socialist ideal" they are espousing.
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doriswilgus 



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:41 pm
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What’s wrong with being a Chardonnay socialist anyway?I’m sure there are plenty of Chardonnay fascists out there as well,but nobody seems to worry about them, Smile
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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:03 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
It's time to stop taking the cheap shots and engage with the debate, Stui.

As for the rest of it, your post misses the bus - these people are not "espousing socialist ideals", which is why they cannot be "chardonnay socialists". If you think I am wrong about that, tell me what "socialist ideal" they are espousing.


Precisely! They’re yuppie centrist technocrats, by and large. I have no idea what alcoholic beverage they drink when standing around their foosball tables: craft beer, perhaps?

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:10 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
It's time to stop taking the cheap shots and engage with the debate, Stui.

As for the rest of it, your post misses the bus - these people are not "espousing socialist ideals", which is why they cannot be "chardonnay socialists". If you think I am wrong about that, tell me what "socialist ideal" they are espousing.


They all talk up progessive ideals in public, donate billions to support poor and underprivileged people while paying their employees dirt and living the life of Reilly. So they fit the definition for mine.

Considering all the philanthropy is a tax write off anyway, they're just fkn hypocrites.

As far as cheap shots, glass houses and stones.

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:21 pm
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I find Social Media is mostly full of Dickheads
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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:02 pm
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Thankfully Nick’s is an exception. Wink
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:31 pm
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^

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Razz

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What'sinaname Libra

The great pretender


Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: In your radio

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:47 pm
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David wrote:
Thankfully Nick’s is an exception. Wink


Yeah, it's full of cnutheads! Laughing Laughing Wink Wink
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:35 am
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It never ceases to amaze how the most deranged, dangerous and reckless scumbags are also convinced they're the world's biggest victims. Like incompetent psychopathic cult leader, like brainless cult follower.

'Free speech' is another toddler-level misapprehension of reality whereby you blindly repeat a phrase you've never thought about to grant yourself so little responsibility that plotting to kill people, whipping yourself into a civilisation-wrecking rage, and supporting others in their like madness, becomes your right.

For the Cult, it's about clutching at one ignorant stupidity after another, with no mind for the consequences, and no thought beyond the current impulse.

I guess it's much like proliferating guns, persecuting blacks and minorities, invading peasant countries and stealing their resources, poisoning the earth and atmosphere irredeemably, and bullying teenage girls into becoming single mothers: nothing a good sing along at the local fasco-evangelical church, a dozen Facebook likes, and the search for a new reckless crazy to elect can't erase from mind.

When social cleansing and overturning elections — whether by reckless disease spreading, voter suppression or frenzied mob coordination — becomes the high water mark of your notion of human rights, you know you're surrounded by a failed, twisted culture of suicide bombing nutters.

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:59 am
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^ Great post, PTID.
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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:46 am
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Social media companies are not all that consistent when banning or moderating bad actors on their platforms.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/killallcops?lang=en

That is not a political protest or just hyperbole, it is what is, calls for violence.

Twitter policy:

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/violent-threats-glorification

Not sure what the US law in what ever state is but under threats to kill in Most states in Australia .

https://www.judicialcollege.vic.edu.au/eManuals/CCB/4983.htm

Either you have responsible credible moderation or you dont.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 am
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^One hopes everyone agrees with you.
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