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Should the national anthem be changed?

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Would you support changing the national anthem?
Yes
35%
 35%  [ 5 ]
Yes, but only if a really compelling alternative presented itself
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
No
57%
 57%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 14

Author Message
David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:10 pm
Post subject: Should the national anthem be changed?Reply with quote

Thereíve been discussions about changing our national anthem for years Ė including on here Ė but this is the first time, from what Iím aware, itís been taken up in the mainstream media as a political issue. And itís coming from, of all places, Rugby League personalities:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-16/indigenous-all-stars-cody-walker-mal-meninga-national-anthem/10818760?pfmredir=sm

Personally, Iím all in favour of refusing to sing or stand for the anthem in protest or simply because you donít feel like it (forced patriotism makes me sick), and I can understand why, say, an Aboriginal person might feel that our national paraphernalia in general are symbols of a country that they donít identify with.

But replacing the anthem with a new one is an entirely different matter, and I have to admit that I really struggle to understand where this is coming from. Firstly, letís have a refresher of the lyrics (including the second verse that none of us ever learned):

Quote:
Australians all let us rejoice
For we are young and free
We've golden soil and wealth for toil
Our home is girt by sea
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia Fair

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands
To make this Commonwealth of ours
renowned of all the lands
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia Fair


For a ballad thatís almost 150 years old, Iím honestly kind of surprised by how inoffensive it is. The only problematic term or concept I can pick out there is ďyoungĒ, which does, by implication, erase Aboriginal history. But if we were going to change anything, swapping out that word for another Ė say, ďstrongĒ or ďbraveĒ, or some other appropriate one-syllable adjective that resonates with people Ė would be relatively easy. So why the calls to throw the whole song out rather than merely tweak the lyrics? Itís not like it was even a national symbol that was contemporaneous with the oppressive events of yesteryear like the Stolen Generations or frontier wars Ė itís only been our anthem for a bit over 40 years.

I support changing the date of Australia Day and the flag because of what they currently represent (Indigenous dispossession and British rule, respectively). And I understand that a lot of people just hate the anthem because they find it musically or lyrically uninspiring (personally, as far as anthems go, I think itís fine). But I canít see any compelling reason to change it, and canít think of an existing alternative that would be any better.

This is the kind of thing where, despite my mostly left-wing politics, Iím a bit of a conservative. What symbols symbolise is important, but so to, to an extent, is the mere fact that they are traditional and recognisable, and that people have grown up with them. I donít just believe in change for changeís sake, and suspect that people who do are missing the point. I have a strong suspicion that any new Ė ďmodernĒ and totally PC Ė anthem we could possibly come up with would inevitably turn out to be even more kitsch and date even faster than Advance Australia Fair has. And the irony is that such an agreeable update would only serve as a veneer to cover over ongoing disadvantage, racism and prejudice. But maybe Iím wrong Ė what do you think?

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:30 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted no.
For obvious reasons i used to love God save the queen, but once this ones gone, well.... but thats a personal thing.

I actually enjoy belting out Advance Australia Fair! I enjoy National Anthems for the most part, I love watching everyone get up and in to it altogether. I guess thats why changing our theme song irks me, I love Good Old Collingwood Forever with every inch of my being!!

I got extremely pissed when i was at my Citizenship Ceremony and some people sat, (they didnt all need wheelchairs) looked at their $£$%^%%$ phones, or just looked bored. I dont like people DECIDING to sit for it. Its all about respect. would it kill you? You dont have to join in, but you can stand straight, hat OFF for just a few minutes.

Warning, personal story; At Melbourne show one year we were walking out after the fireworks, i would have been around 10, an the National Anthem came on, I stopped, my older sister walked on, And my dad screamed out Stand Still you ignorant bugger, your not an Aussie yet. I know thats awful & offensive to a lot of people, but as the 10 year old who did the "right"thing OMG it was funny!!

I have no problem with changing the date for Australia day, if only to shut up the squeaky wheels. Truth is though, someone will come up with another reason to be offended.

I honestly dont believe reconciliation is possible. A sorry fixes nothing. I dont know the answer. I doubt there is a country on earth that can fix this, and every country has its own problem, because im guessing no settlers were invited in quietly. I guess if it bothered me enough id research what they want, what they feel will fix it.

Another personal story, At a Speedway in the middle of nowhere, Williams Grove Speedway Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, USA in 2016 We stood for National Anthem before the races started, and got the shock of our lives as Advance Australia Fair came out the speakers! Hubby, me and junior belted it out with gutso and every one of the red necks around us stood on their feet, hat off, with respect. And then we all did the same for the Star Spangled Banner! It was fricken awesome! this place was packed to the rafters, massive joint, just the best night at the speedway ever! - in case anyone is interested Aussie James McFadden was racing that night - he almost won it too!

I honestly dont get your dont feel like it comment David, but i dont take it offensively because I know your laid back attitude when it comes to these things. Each to their own. But id give you a hard stare if i saw you do it!!

dont get me started on the kneeling thang!! cheers

as an aside i really like the way you worded this post. initiates discussion, but not arguments!!

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Last edited by think positive on Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:32 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not trying to get him or her started on the kneeling.
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:39 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

HAL wrote:
I am not trying to get him or her started on the kneeling.

can you kneel?

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:52 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Jingoistic claptrap. Donít have one. Play ďFriday On My MindĒ instead. Now, thereís a song you can stand for.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:57 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Is ďFriday On his or her MindĒ a game or a musical instrument?
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:00 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Change it back to God save The Queen/King.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chinese National Anthem. We will soon be totally owned by the Chinese.
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:53 am
Post subject: Re: Should the national anthem be changed?Reply with quote

David wrote:
Thereíve been discussions about changing our national anthem for years Ė including on here Ė but this is the first time, from what Iím aware, itís been taken up in the mainstream media as a political issue. And itís coming from, of all places, Rugby League personalities:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-16/indigenous-all-stars-cody-walker-mal-meninga-national-anthem/10818760?pfmredir=sm

Personally, Iím all in favour of refusing to sing or stand for the anthem in protest or simply because you donít feel like it (forced patriotism makes me sick), and I can understand why, say, an Aboriginal person might feel that our national paraphernalia in general are symbols of a country that they donít identify with.

But replacing the anthem with a new one is an entirely different matter, and I have to admit that I really struggle to understand where this is coming from. Firstly, letís have a refresher of the lyrics (including the second verse that none of us ever learned):

Quote:
Australians all let us rejoice
For we are young and free
We've golden soil and wealth for toil
Our home is girt by sea
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia Fair

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands
To make this Commonwealth of ours
renowned of all the lands
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia Fair


For a ballad thatís almost 150 years old, Iím honestly kind of surprised by how inoffensive it is. The only problematic term or concept I can pick out there is ďyoungĒ, which does, by implication, erase Aboriginal history. But if we were going to change anything, swapping out that word for another Ė say, ďstrongĒ or ďbraveĒ, or some other appropriate one-syllable adjective that resonates with people Ė would be relatively easy. So why the calls to throw the whole song out rather than merely tweak the lyrics? Itís not like it was even a national symbol that was contemporaneous with the oppressive events of yesteryear like the Stolen Generations or frontier wars Ė itís only been our anthem for a bit over 40 years.

I support changing the date of Australia Day and the flag because of what they currently represent (Indigenous dispossession and British rule, respectively). And I understand that a lot of people just hate the anthem because they find it musically or lyrically uninspiring (personally, as far as anthems go, I think itís fine). But I canít see any compelling reason to change it, and canít think of an existing alternative that would be any better.

This is the kind of thing where, despite my mostly left-wing politics, Iím a bit of a conservative. What symbols symbolise is important, but so to, to an extent, is the mere fact that they are traditional and recognisable, and that people have grown up with them. I donít just believe in change for changeís sake, and suspect that people who do are missing the point. I have a strong suspicion that any new Ė ďmodernĒ and totally PC Ė anthem we could possibly come up with would inevitably turn out to be even more kitsch and date even faster than Advance Australia Fair has. And the irony is that such an agreeable update would only serve as a veneer to cover over ongoing disadvantage, racism and prejudice. But maybe Iím wrong Ė what do you think?



Speaking for yourself there David, we learnt the whole song when I was at school (1973-1982) and so did Kelly (she's 6 years younger)... maybe it was a WA thing at the time. I remember signing both Advance Australia Fair and God save the Queen during my school years.

I voted no, I love the song. Everyone standing at the G on ANZAC day is spine tingling stuff. The Wildcats do it before every home game, it's great to be a part of.

I remember the yanks singing their anthem before the half marathons I did in San Fran & Santa Barbara, love it!

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:44 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I said change it if we get a compelling alternative. Otherwise, I see no real reason for change. (I'd change the flag in a millisecond, but Australia day stays on Jan 26)

NRL players aren't renowned for being intelligent, regardless of their race, so I put zero weight on Mal Meninga's comments. I'd be very surprised if that stunt wasn't somewhat inspired by the Kaspernick inspired protests in the NFL.

The question of the National Anthem was put to a popular vote run by the ABS in 74 and a plebiscite in 77, both times Indigenous people were able to participate and both times Advance Australia fair won.

I don't particularly like the tune, it's a dirge, but have no problems with the words. However, unlike the Collingwood theme song (which shall remain sacrosanct) I'd have no issues tweaking the words a bit to include reference to the first Australians.

This isn't a bad alternate version using the same tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn4NeUE7zCk


I also wouldn't mind tweaking the tune it's sung to, as the rhyming style allows it to be fitted to multiple different tunes.

eg.
Gilligans Island. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CffGsFbHdZQ
Working Class Man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiEycVMKoJo

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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:08 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

You start tinkering and every second interest group will want something put in. Are athiests in NZ trying to change the God defend New Zealand. How much money was wasted on a plebesite for gay marriage. I would much rather the government work on stopping a crashing Australia dollar and rebuilding the cattle herd than changing a a song. By the way where is go the pies on the end of the song.
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:26 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

If we re-work the words, maybe we can stick 'Cakewalk' in there somewhere. Wink Razz

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What'sinaname Libra

The great pretender


Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: In your radio

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:01 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

yep....change it to True Blue
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What'sinaname Libra

The great pretender


Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: In your radio

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:06 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I came from the dream-time
From the dusty red-soil plains
I am the ancient heart
The keeper of the flame
I stood upon the rocky shores
I watched the tall ships come
For forty thousand years I've been
The first Australian

I came upon the prison ship
Bowed down by iron chains
I bought the land, endured the lash
And waited for the rains
I'm a settler, I'm a farmer's wife
On a dry and barren run
A convict, then a free man
I became Australian

I'm the daughter of a digger
Who sought the mother lode
The girl became a woman
On the long and dusty road
I'm a child of the Depression
I saw the good times come
I'm a bushie, I'm a battler
I am Australian

We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"

I'm a teller of stories
I'm a singer of songs
I am Albert Namatjira
And I paint the ghostly gums
I'm Clancy on his horse
I'm Ned Kelly on the run
I'm the one who waltzed Matilda
I am Australian

I'm the hot wind from the desert
I'm the black soil of the plains
I'm the mountains and the valleys
I'm the drought and flooding rains
I am the rock, I am the sky
The rivers when they run
The spirit of this great land
I am Australian

We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"

We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian"

"I am, you are, we are Australian"
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:03 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a problem with a medley/remix of Solid Rock and Waltzing Matilda?
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