Travis Cloke

[Presti35]

In 2016, he seemed on track to reach 300 games and even possibly the club record. He was young enough to get there and I thought he could actually do it.

It's only been 4 years since he departed the club and as we know he went to the Dogs, where he only played 10 games.

What happened? Did he just lose interest? Did his form really drop off that badly? Do you think if he went to another club other than Footscray, he could have played a bit longer?

At 33, it's possible that he could still have played in 2020. (Hawkins 32, Kennedy 33).

2X AA, Copeland Trophy, A Flag, and 250 games. Sure, he wasn't the greatest player we've ever seen, but we've sure struggled to find a FF/CHF since.

[eddiesmith]

Something went very wrong in 2016 and it was a massive failure by Buckley and the club to lose a player like that when he had so much more time left in his career.

[Sicks Bux]

I thought he'd lost his athleticism and ability to get on his bike. This meant he couldn't blow up his opponent by running them up and down the ground and making multiple leads. As a result he got caught under the ball too much and defenders could easily spoil. He seemed physically shot to me

[dalyc]

[Lazza]

[Rick]

Towards the end I remember all he wanted to do was wrestle with his opponent and have the ball sat on his head. Stopped working over his opponent aerobically and started giving away a lot of free kicks instead. Much like our disposal in 2020 it was awful back then which didn’t help his cause either.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

Basically the game changed and defenders became better at zoning off. Cloke had trouble adapting, then the AFL banned his glove which affected his greatest asset which was his marking. Our mids weren’t accurate in their forward delivery only compounding the problem even more. When your confidence is at a low ebb it’s difficult to get it back. It’s not the coach’s fault. It’s not Cloke’s fault. It’s just the way it is.

[inxs88]

Travis (according to Malthouse) took many hits during his career and had some severe back issues that were never really publicly disclosed. Fans need to remember that Travis debuted at 18 years old and packed in a tremendous amount of consecutive football seasons. Big blokes with that type of pedigree inevitably tail off by 28-30 years old. Travis' form slip was significant enough and sustained enough for even the most ardent fans to know he was cooked. His last 50 games support this.

[think positive]

he might have lasted longer in a team where the umpires prevented him being smashed 3 on to one at every contest. laughable the way others are protected yet he copped it and copped it with very few frees

[Dr Pie]

When Cloke was at his best, Collingwood had Leroy Brown and Chris Dawes also in the forward line. While Dawes rarely kicked more than a couple of goals per match he was a dangerous enough player that he needed to be opposed. Leroy's skills were excellent in 2010-11. The net effect was that tall defenders could not leave Brown and Dawes to join a pile on against Cloke and in his early years up to and including the Grand Finals Travis usually only faced one opponent.

Brown retired at the end of 2011. Buckley tried to make Dawes into a Leroy Brown i.e. a Ruckman/Forward. Dawes was not a good ruckman and all the new role did was destroy Dawes' confidence and at the end of the year Dawes joined Melbourne. The potential replacements for Brown and Dawes were first Quentin Lynch (after he was well past his best) and Jesse White who didn't have a best to be past. Opposition defenders did not rate them and left them unattended while they joined the number one key defender in outnumbering Cloke. During 2012-6 Travis rarely flew for a mark without at least two opponents, no wonder he lost form and confidence.

[eddiesmith]

Which is exactly the same issues Collingwood is facing today and people still say it's not Buckley's fault?

But for some reason a key forward has never been a necessary requirement in Buckley's game plan.

It's no wonder Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron never considered Collingwood as a destination, what forward would?

[Pebbles Rocks]

[What'sinaname]

[Pies4shaw]

^ In any event, the problem with Buckley's forward lines is that he has always considered it necessary to play one permanent KPF and a second KPF who is the relieving ruckman. He dismantled the forward line that contained two permanent KPFs and a third tall/relieving ruck and then looked, successively, to find a second KPF who could ruck. You'd think that after a decade he'd realize that's stupid beyond belief - but it appears not.

From 2008 to 2011, Collingwood (in the home and away 22 matches only) kicked 331, 313, 335 and 381 goals, respectively. The decision to ruck Dawes was instituted immediately - and hopelessly - in Buckley's first year. And Collingwood's goals in the home and away matches dropped to 305 and 310 in his first two years. That was with Travis contributing 75 goals per year (59 goals and 16 goal assists in 2012; and 68 goals and 7 goal assists in 2013).

As Travis buckled under the weight of trying to carry the team with that stupid gameplan, Collingwood managed just 252, 287 and 276 goals in the next three home and away seasons. In the most recent 3 full home and away seasons, Collingwood managed just 278, 300 (in the Grand Final year) and 274 goals. It's putrid - and largely attributable to a deliberate decision by the Coach not to play three talls in the forward line, accompanied by another deliberate decision not to "waste" high draft picks on tall forwards. Have a look at the average or worse footballers that have been brought in to "replace" Cloke and Dawes - (the other) Lynch, White, Cox and Mihocek. Not one of them was or is capable of playing as a genuine key forward in a top team.

As for Lynch, it has been widely and consistently reported that he was very interested in coming to Collingwood - until he spoke to Buckley.

[Sicks Bux]

^How many other teams in the comp have two permanent KPFs and a third tall as the relieving ruckman? It seems like the three talls are out of fashion because of the emphasis of having smaller forwards who can apply defensive pressure.