The Ruck

[Pies4shaw]

Buckley tried them changing at FF, which is a nonsense. In any event, you don't play a mobile big man like Grundy at FF - it nullifies his advantage. If you play him up forward, he plays at CHF. Even so, that's just something you do to tide you over until you address the inadequacies in the forward line by recruiting forwards and address the problem in the midfield by getting rid of Adams and Treloar and recruiting players who are worth the money and contract length those guys have.

Every week, Collingwood puts at least 8 players on the park that are not up to the requisite standard. It beggars belief that so many of you want to focus on one of the few guys that definitely is.

Grundy took more contested marks than Cox last season. He was equal-second on the team with Moore, behind only Mihocek. That means he had more contested marks than Howe and Roughead, amongst all the others.

His 4 marks per game don't put him up with Travis Cloke, who took nearly 7 per match but the difference is scarcely the gulf some of you imagine.

[masoncox]

[quote="5 from the wing on debut"]

[masoncox]

[K]

[orie]

[K]

[Woods]

The players break for match sim, and Cox and Grundy meet,
In a centre clash of titans, and they tap to the midfields’ feet.
“You’ll get nutted in the clearances!”, cries Buckley from the gate,
As in the Preliminary Final when supporters’ hearts did break.

https://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=86882

[5 from the wing on debut]

[BazBoy]

I read some one ask about Pebbles being our ruck coach and said to myself

Ben Hudson the early tutor of Grundy and Witts —at the time acknowledged
as a vital part to their advancement but he was to leave to be a solo coach advisor

He has held the position at Brisbane for three years as ruck / defence play coach

He at Brizzy and the Monk at Hawks who are legit ruckman—why have we not persued either or similar

[Pies4shaw]

Just another interesting number for the Grundy haters to pretend has t happened. Thor finished with 555 hitouts in the 17-game 2020 home and away season.

For the people who like to pretend that stat is meaningless, I observe both that he had more hitouts to advantage than any other player in the competition and also that, if it is a meaningless stat, it might lead us to contemplate why it is that only Thor, Peter Moore and Darren Jolly have bettered that rally for Collingwood (all, of course, in normal-length seasons plus finals).

It is also surprising (and, no doubt, equally irrelevant for most of you) that, despite games being 20% shorter than formerly, Thor’s hitout average per game is behind only 3 other Collingwood rucking seasons - all, coincidentally, by Collingwood ruckmen with an identical name and in surprisingly recent years (2017, 2018 and 2019).

By the end of Collingwood’s season (even if that is the next game), Grundy will likely have had the 5th-most total hitouts by any Collingwood ruckman in a season (behind Thor, Thor, Thor and Jolly).

[Pies4shaw]

Just on the hilarious comparison between Thor and the Footscray child - and putting aside Grundy's 6 Brownlow votes in the two Footscray games last year and his massive game in round 1 this year (for which he has not yet been given his Brownlow votes) - it is important to appreciate that the "hitouts to advantage" percentage that many of you like reflects how many of the hitouts a player wins that go to their team, not the total proportion of all ruck contests they attend that they win and go to their team.

Thus, English has an apparently "high" "hitouts to advantage" percentage largely because he loses most of the ruck contests he attends. He got the hitout from just 280 of his 958 ruck contests. Of the 280 he didn't lose, he managed to hit 86 to advantage. Of course, if over 70% of his ruck contests (as he has done this season) don't result in him getting a hitout, the "hitouts to advantage" percentage is not really a number you'd want to look at.

In fact, the question of ranking on the basis of "hitouts to advantage" percentage is entirely spurious because the statistic only measures what a ruckman does when he wins the contest. So, if you look, for example, at Natanui, he has a 29.3% "hitouts to advantage" percentage and Thor has "just" 27.7%. If you average it out over the number of contests a ruckman who isn't Thor actually wins in a season, it comes out to about 1 additional hitout to advantage every second game for them. Of course, that isn't a sensible way to analyse things, ether, because almost all of them get thrashed in the hitouts count when they play Collingwood.

So, what none of this analysis actually shows is how these other "stars" of the ruck go when they are up against Grundy. Since most of them get a hitout against him about once every 3 or 4 - at most - ruck contests that Thor attends, their "hitouts to advantage" percentages when they ruck against Tim English are reasonably irrelevant.

[BazBoy]

I’ve watched Natanui and of course Grundy and their hit outs to advantage

A lot of NitNats are directed parallel to the contest (i.e to players in less congestion)
Grundy at times does too but much more vertical drop into a congestion

Is it that we don’t (a) structure our receiving players or (b) don’t have the right ones to make his work profit the team

[5 from the wing on debut]

[masoncox]

Some Stats
that indicate we have some concerns about our rucks

● Ranked 12th in Contested Marks Per Game

● Ranked 13th in Centre Clearances Per Game

● Ranked 15th in least Opponent Stoppage Clearances Per Game

● Ranked 12th in Team to Opponent Stoppage Clearances Per Game Diff.

As stated before Grundy is below par when it comes to contested marks.
Averages 0.9 contested marks per game.
You need the ruckman to take contested marks around the ground.
We got beaten on Monday night solely because we got done at the centre bounce.
Take it out of the centre into Inside 50 and you have an even contest because of the 6-6-6 rule
Centre clearences are crucial!!!
Either we have a problem with the ruck or a problem with the mids or a combination of both.
Something is critically wrong there.
Everybody knows that the ruck work of hit outs by Grundy isn't working.
Even though he dominates with the hitouts.

If Grundy hits the ball consistently to our mids and they clear it forward then we would not be sitting 8th on the ladder but in the top 4.
Hit outs to his feet or hit outs to the opposition is what has been happening all season.
As for English..... good chance he will win a Brownlow in 5 years time as long as he keeps fit.
I don't think Grundy has a hope in hell of winning one at the current time.

[masoncox]