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Google, taxes, journalism, and fair play

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:57 am
Post subject: Google, taxes, journalism, and fair playReply with quote

I keep reading that Google and Facebook carry news stories filched from the organisations which actually create and pay for it: Nine-Fairfax, the ABC, News Corp, Crikey, and so on.

Essentially, Google (and others) have ripped the guts out of journalism in Australia (and everywhere else, of course) by extracting the content and putting it on their own platforms, and (of course) taking away almost all of the revenue.

News Corp (and the others) pay to produce the news, Google and Facebook rake off the cream. This is causing serious damage to journalism in Australia (and elsewhere), leading to massive layoffs, near-closure of AAP, lack of public scrutiny of politicians, lower publication standards, and all the rest of it.

OK, I'll accept all of that ^ on face value. It's not a contentious view after all. Even the hidebound do-nothing ACC looks at it that way.

The bit I don't get is this: how does Google (or Facebook, etc.) do what everybody says they do? They can't reprint entire articles because of copyright rules, nor can they host audio or video clips. All they can do (as I understand it) is post links to the content together with short summaries. But to read the actual article or view the actual video clip, you have to go to the Age website or Channel Ten, or wherever.

Something doesn't add up.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:33 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure about Facebook, but Google does a weird thing I've noticed in which, sometimes, if you click on a news article URL via the search engine, you get taken to a page that looks essentially the same but has a (long) Google URL. You may even notice a few of them posted here from time to time. It's always puzzled (and slightly) annoyed me, and not sure if it's relevant to what you're talking about, but here's an article that mentions the 'service':

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/16/18402628/google-amp-url-problem-signed-exchange-original-chrome-cloudflare

It's also possible on mobile to read an article posted on Facebook without leaving the Facebook app – you just get a little pop-up within the app with the piece. I guess it makes sense that that would mean the destination site doesn't get a hit.

Edit: more on Google AMP here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Mobile_Pages#General_criticism

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:04 pm
Post subject: Google vs Australian GovermentReply with quote

Google is Really Pissed at the new Laws that Give Big Media Companies Control over Youtube and Google.


Sounds bit like the Old SOPA laws that US tried to pass

https://about.google/intl/ALL_au/google-in-australia/an-open-letter/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mealbar-p2

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it is nothing at all like SOPA. THe aim of the proposed legislation is simply to stop Google and Facebook stealing content from smaller companies like Nine and Crikey. Google has gone feral because they think they have a Holy Right to steal stuff from anyone. And not pay for it.

They are scum.

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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Agree.

The big tech companies should pay for news content that is provided by media companies. Don't think that's too much to ask for.

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Bucks5 Capricorn

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Joined: 23 Mar 2002


PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:26 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was about search results and making sure that searches, for example, on 'coronavirus' display items from 'credible' news sources before the usual interweb offerings and theories by crackpots.
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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:44 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

An Open Letter to Google
From the Australia Institute Centre for Responsible Technology

As a nation we welcomed you into our lives and have made you our home base on the internet. Your search engine was so good that it became a verb, we no longer search the web, we ‘google it.’

But with success comes responsibilities and right now our Government, as our elected representative, is asking you to act beyond your narrow commercial self-interest.

The Australian Consumer and Competition Commission (ACCC) has reviewed your impact on our media and found the impact of your business model — and that of the other dominant digital platform Facebook — on our national life has been disastrous.

You have exploited your understanding of our personal interests and behaviours to draw advertisers away from traditional media, destroying the business model that supported independent journalism for more than 150 years.

In the past decade more than 5,000 Australian journalists have lost their jobs as your share of advertising has grown and grown.

You have also been happy to use stories written by those journalists as if they were your own work, deriving value from something that isn’t yours.

Now the ACCC has asked you to recognise this and contribute some of your massive profits back into media in order for this essential element of our nation’s public square to thrive.

With this support there would be more journalists who could keep us informed, give all Australians a voice, monitor the activities of the powerful and ensure that all levels of government are held accountable. But instead of supporting our national interest, you have chosen to put yourself first.

So here’s a few things we would like to put on the table:

While your service may appear free, you make eye-watering amounts of money by selling access to us.

We don’t quite know how you do it all, but you don’t make $4.8 billion in advertising revenue without deriving real value from our usage. So maybe it’s time to respect us.

You are using your power as one of the largest companies on earth to threaten us.

When we ask you to consider paying a fair amount for the journalism from which you benefit, you threaten to charge us for your search engine. If you don’t want us to use your engine just tell us and we’ll go elsewhere.

And in supporting your interests you are prepared to push misinformation:

  • Your claim that you will need to hand personal information to media companies is wrong.
  • Your claim news publishers are going to receive favourable treatment in the algorithm is wrong.


It’s as if you have taken every clause of the code and exaggerated it out of context and then attempted to create a smokescreen to scare and distract people.

Countering these claims is actually why we need an independent media — which is the whole point of the code.

Australians embrace innovators, but we don’t like bullies.

If you want our ongoing support, we encourage you to make it mutual and reach a fair arrangement that respects our Australian media.

-- https://www.tai.org.au/content/open-letter-google

Add your name to the open letter here -> https://www.centreforresponsibletechnology.org.au/google_open_letter

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:50 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Signed. Thanks Tannin!
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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:52 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfenjuCFqEQ
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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:28 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I call out flat lies.

The proposed law has NOTHING to do with YouTube. Nothing whatsoever. It applies ONLY to Google and Facebook. Unlike Google and Facebook, YouTube doesn't steal content from the Australian media companies without paying for it, and is totally unaffected by the changes.

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave The Man wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfenjuCFqEQ


My jaw nearly hit the ground when I heard this:

Quote:
This is a very concerning piece of legislation coming from a government trying to force a private company into a new set of rules and conditions that favour exclusively the corporate segment of the market – primarily the ABC media platform, which is Australia's, shall we say, propaganda arm; it's actually paid by the government, and all of the content on there is very compliant with the way our government wants to have themselves perceived.


Er, what? If he'd called the ABC a cultural Marxist propaganda platform (or whatever), we'd know he's just a right-wing crank. And sure, others might legitimately criticise it for being too beholden to government control. But this wording is very suspicious, and makes me think that this video is being cynically aimed squarely at Americans who don't understand how government-funded media works. The video also features extensive clips from Google's own propaganda videos, so you can make up your own mind about which side his bread is buttered.

Anyway, some useful clarifications here:

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/response-to-google-open-letter

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Last edited by David on Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

From TWIT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apmOlvL95fA

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:25 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Google Promises to De-index ‘Proxies’ and ‘Mirrors’ of Pirate Sites in Australia:

https://torrentfreak.com/google-promises-to-de-index-proxies-and-mirrors-of-pirate-sites-in-australia-200827/

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:30 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Is that relevant to Google's false claims about media and copyright?
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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:49 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Tannin wrote:
^ Is that relevant to Google's false claims about media and copyright?


It's about Google and Copyright

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