Homoerotic locker-room culture and consent

[David]

There's already a discussion on the Richmond groping incident in the Other AFL forum (linked below), but I thought I'd start a thread here for a more general discussion.

https://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1976550

And vision of the incident is here, for anyone who hasn't seen it: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-07/richmond-afl-nick-vlastuin-jayden-short-apologise-to-mabior-chol/12536008

I'm sure a lot of us felt instinctively taken aback by the description of this as sexual assault, and for good reason: I suspect most of the male posters here have been on the end of stuff like this ourselves at one point from other guys or even participated in it, whether at school or in junior sporting clubs, and wouldn't necessarily have considered ourselves sexual assault victims as a result. It's pretty clear to me at least that it's pretty juvenile and unsavoury behaviour that teaches people that it's okay to ignore others' boundaries, and the sooner it gets stamped out of particularly professional all-male spaces the better. But why do (straight) men do it? And why, if it is sexual assault – and we generally accept that groping someone's genitalia without their consent is – does it feel more like a kind of play and, at worst, an annoyance than a sex crime, with all the baggage that entails?

I have a few suspicions about these questions – that there are implicit codes between (particularly straight and same-sex) friends that sometimes make this kind of "horseplay" permissible, whether it's female friends surpising each other by slapping each other on the bottom or male friends engaging in "ironic" homoerotic behaviour – but I'd be interested in others' views on this strange phenomenon.

[Tannin]

When I saw the thread title, you know what? I sort of guessed that it would be one of David's.

[Tannin]

PS: this is a great big Giant Economy Size can of worms of a topic, littered with fair points to be made, subtleties, exaggerations, exceptions to the usual rules, special cases, and absolutely drowning in more massive generalisations than you could sweep a street with. I'm out.

[David]

A pity, Tannin! Those are my favourite kinds of topics.

[stui magpie]

Trying to stick your finger up someone's butt when they aren't expecting it and haven't consented to it could get you in front of a magistrate in some circumstances, as is grabbing someone's dick.

That kind of homo erotic locker room stuff is more associated with Rugby Union than Aussie rules. If you'd tried that in any of the teams I played for you'd wake up on the floor with a broken nose.

Interesting that it was 2 senior white players picking on the more junior black guy. Just wait til the US media gets hold of that, I'm sure Harry O will be happy to provide a comment, Shae Mac already has

[Tannin]

^ Indeed. Mind you, Harry O would be happy to provide a comment about any topic, so long as it gets him back into the spotlight for another golden moment.

[David]

Rather than pre-emptively having a go at H, we might consider how this dynamic plays into and reinforces the exact concerns he was raising. Though having said that, I have seen footage of Jack Riewoldt doing the same to a different teammate, which suggests that Chol is far from the only "victim".

Edit: and St Kilda’s Dan Butler (who left Richmond at the end of last year) did the same thing to another teammate after the Gold Coast game, which kind of suggests this has been going on at the club for a while now.

[Sicks Bux]

Speaking of the homoerotic locker room. I didn't realize how handsome Callan Ward was until I saw him get interviewed with his top off post game. He had me questioning myself for a minute. Or perhaps I should just say he's a good looking rooster, which is footy speak for no homo.

As for Richmond it's pretty obvious you shouldn't be grabbing your team mates cock. Even if Chol says he wasn't offended by it the club or the leauge should take action on principal. I also thought the way Hardwick ran away from the press conference, when he was asked about it, was as weak as piss.

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

Yep.

Look, I have no problems with a bit of homo-erotic horse play, provided everyone is in on the joke and onboard with it. Even then, you run the risk of offending someone present who actually IS gay.

But Chol clearly isn't in on the joke or happy to play along, he's swatting hands away.

I wonder how Vlaustin would like it if he was sitting pool side having a nap and Chol walked up, uncoiled the old fella and shoved his cock in Vlaustin's mouth?

I'm sure he'd see the funny side of that?

[think positive]

[David]

All relevant questions, Jo.

[think positive]

[think positive]

[David]