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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Or maybe the £$%$ers are just too sneaky! You only have to watch that border show to see what efforts people go to.
You are being ridiculous.
But I’m sure you know that. If you don’t well there goes your credibility! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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stui magpie wrote: | pietillidie wrote: | stui magpie wrote: | Basic world fact, a country has it's own laws and communicates those, people who want to travel to said country are responsible for understanding what laws they may face.
Females wanting to walk the streets in Saudi Arabia in a bikini probably should do some reading first, packing your boogie bag full of dope before flying to Bali probably isn't smart, etc.
Ignorance of the law is not and never has been an excuse. |
Unfortunately, I said communicate and enforce. You've missed the enforcement bit. Even if you think communication doesn't matter, you're still responsible for enforcement. Nice try. |
Did you trip over and hit your head? We do enforce stuff. The link that started this little convo had a Vietnamese woman being deported. We take customs breaches seriously. Is your prostate blocking your vision? |
So, you've got a law, and the law's enforced. Haven't you just undermined your own hysteria? Where these laws are widely broken it's because they're not communicated properly and not enforced sufficiently/productively. I know who's hit his head. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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pietillidie wrote: | Let's get all offended because someone challenged our self-entitledness and vote for some clueless fist-waving halfwit to facilitate our decline due to an imbecilic refusal to take responsibility for anything, even enforcing our own laws |
How about personal responsibility of the criminals knowingly doing the wrong thing? It’s not usually found in their handbag!
And Stui, that is the best post I’ve read in a long time! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Intercultural communications 101: some cultures lack a comparable legal context to know how serious something is, so it needs to be signalled better. I've thought this for decades as I've travelled and watched this happen around me and read the customs materials. But some clueless twat without the faintest idea of how these things need to be communicated would've written something up quickly and got it translated shoddily to stay under some pitiful budget granted to him.
It's never ever something we could take responsibility for and do better. It's about hysterical outbursts and Facebook likes. And so we decline. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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pietillidie wrote: | ^Intercultural communications 101: some cultures lack a comparable legal context to know how serious something is, so it needs to be signalled better. |
OK, simple, easy to fix. The next 20 offenders get shot in the head, no trial.
I reckon how serious something is would be clearly understood extremely quickly. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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I’m guessing by the trouble these criminals go to in stitching food, not drugs, food, into blankets and clothing, and making compartments in suitcases that they know it’s taken seriously, stop making excuses for them.
The same goes for stupid Aussies smuggling drugs in boogie boards or tied around their middle, not one inch of sympathy or any belief they don’t know it’s wrong _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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stui magpie wrote: | pietillidie wrote: | ^Intercultural communications 101: some cultures lack a comparable legal context to know how serious something is, so it needs to be signalled better. |
OK, simple, easy to fix. The next 20 offenders get shot in the head, no trial.
I reckon how serious something is would be clearly understood extremely quickly. |
Sounds fair!
Although it’s not working for Bali! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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think positive wrote: | I’m guessing by the trouble these criminals go to in stitching food, not drugs, food, into blankets and clothing, and making compartments in suitcases... |
But your argument has shifted here from the greater part of the problem to a tiny part of the problem as represented by some hard core group. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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My argument hasn’t shifted at all, ship the bastards back, they know what they are doing is wrong and they are choosing to do it, fine them and put them on the next plane home with a not welcome stamp right across their visa page.
My opinion is the same as when I started. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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The thing I'm seeing here is two points of view which are both, in my view, absolutely right.
Yes, it is the responsibility of the traveler to inform himself or herself of the applicable laws and customs. Yes, there is no excuse for (e.g.) trying to bring in pork products in your handbag. Yes (and I'm sure that Stui would agree with this) let's make it clear that if you try to (e.g.) smuggle pork in, you get instantly deported. No exceptions. And if you are an Australian citizen, then we cancel your passport. Don't bother applying for another one, you are not fit to hold it.
But yes, we do a poor job of communicating our laws and customs. We just expect other cultures and other languages to somehow know and understand. Compare what we do with what other countries do: many government departments and agencies go to a lot of trouble to help put people in the picture, help mug travellers like you and me stay out of trouble. They work hard at it.
We could learn from that. But we are more interested in pumping more and more people through for lower and lower cost. Nothing else matters except the money. And if we keep screwing things up, that won't last long either. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Tannin wrote: | The thing I'm seeing here is two points of view which are both, in my view, absolutely right.
Yes, it is the responsibility of the traveler to inform himself or herself of the applicable laws and customs. Yes, there is no excuse for (e.g.) trying to bring in pork products in your handbag. Yes (and I'm sure that Stui would agree with this) let's make it clear that if you try to (e.g.) smuggle pork in, you get instantly deported. No exceptions. And if you are an Australian citizen, then we cancel your passport. Don't bother applying for another one, you are not fit to hold it.
But yes, we do a poor job of communicating our laws and customs. We just expect other cultures and other languages to somehow know and understand. Compare what we do with what other countries do: many government departments and agencies go to a lot of trouble to help put people in the picture, help mug travellers like you and me stay out of trouble. They work hard at it.
We could learn from that. But we are more interested in pumping more and more people through for lower and lower cost. Nothing else matters except the money. And if we keep screwing things up, that won't last long either. |
i dont agree we are poor at it, otherwise why does the show border patrol exist? why stitch pig trotters into your undies if you dont think your doing anything wrong?
maybe its the punishment thats lacking/ they take it off them slap them on the wrist and say dont do it again for the most part. hell you cant take fruit across some state borders, its not rocket science! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Good post, Tannin. Not sure why everyone’s jumping all over PTID here; what he’s saying makes perfect sense to me – having a law is one thing, but if it’s not effectively communicated then you’re going to get a lot of (not just malicious but clueless) people breaking it.
And yes, on the flipside, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink. We all know that. But slating everything home to individual responsibility is a good way to distract from structural failure. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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David wrote: | Good post, Tannin. Not sure why everyone’s jumping all over PTID here; what he’s saying makes perfect sense to me – . |
Seriously, you said that. Utter FMD _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Tannin wrote: | The thing I'm seeing here is two points of view which are both, in my view, absolutely right.
Yes, it is the responsibility of the traveler to inform himself or herself of the applicable laws and customs. Yes, there is no excuse for (e.g.) trying to bring in pork products in your handbag. Yes (and I'm sure that Stui would agree with this) let's make it clear that if you try to (e.g.) smuggle pork in, you get instantly deported. No exceptions. And if you are an Australian citizen, then we cancel your passport. Don't bother applying for another one, you are not fit to hold it.
But yes, we do a poor job of communicating our laws and customs. We just expect other cultures and other languages to somehow know and understand. Compare what we do with what other countries do: many government departments and agencies go to a lot of trouble to help put people in the picture, help mug travellers like you and me stay out of trouble. They work hard at it.
We could learn from that. But we are more interested in pumping more and more people through for lower and lower cost. Nothing else matters except the money. And if we keep screwing things up, that won't last long either. |
No sorry it is the responsibility of every traveller - and if they are going through a travel agent /company then they share the responsibility - we are not talking about poor uneducated villagers here - we are talking about people who have the means to travel! Who here would have any great sympathy for an Australian who is arrested overseas for say drug trafficking? No one absolutely no one - the cry would be they should of known - no excuse!
Just one site as an example
https://china.embassy.gov.au/bjng/visiting_australia.html.
And in Chinese language - no excuses none! _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.†|
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Post subject: | |
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David wrote: | Good post, Tannin. Not sure why everyone’s jumping all over PTID here; what he’s saying makes perfect sense to me – having a law is one thing, but if it’s not effectively communicated then you’re going to get a lot of (not just malicious but clueless) people breaking it.
And yes, on the flipside, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink. We all know that. But slating everything home to individual responsibility is a good way to distract from structural failure. |
but it is effectively communicated, do you need to go all bali and have pics of people facing the firing squad for them to get it? you are handed a note on the plane before you land, its in lots of different languages, it tells you exactly, and i mean exactly what you can bring into the country. and then they give you another slip you have to fill in and sign.
where is this not effective communication?
anyone who cant understand "do not bring food into the country" is to dumb to be on the plane.
they know, thats why they hide it! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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