Colin Kaepernick
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ Well, when Colin Kaepernick started the kneeling, he was hounded out of the NFL, with what passes for the President of the United States leading the charge. |
But he wasn't brave at all. Not in any way. |
Really? Considering it apparently cost him his professional gridiron career – quite apart from the courage it requires to publicly resist a patriotic ritual – I’d say it was a brave and principled demonstration of solidarity, and one that cost him greatly. |
Him being shit cost him his career. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | David wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ Well, when Colin Kaepernick started the kneeling, he was hounded out of the NFL, with what passes for the President of the United States leading the charge. |
But he wasn't brave at all. Not in any way. |
Really? Considering it apparently cost him his professional gridiron career – quite apart from the courage it requires to publicly resist a patriotic ritual – I’d say it was a brave and principled demonstration of solidarity, and one that cost him greatly. |
Him being shit cost him his career. |
You obviously know nothing about the NFL. He wasn’t an all-time great quarterback but he was certainly well above average. He took the 49ers to a Super Bowl and, if he was still starting, they might well have won last year. In any event, he is way too talented - both with his arm and as a rusher - not to be on a roster. He lost his career in the NFL solely because of the political backlash against him kneeling. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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You didn’t read my post. You just got angry. I don’t know whether you know anything at all about the NFL but, if you do, you will know that every roster typically carries 3 quarterbacks. You should have a look, eg, at the spuds they bring in at my team when Rodgers gets injured. Kaepernick makes them look third rate (which is about what they are, usually). It simply cannot be said by any intelligent observer of the game that he wasn’t/isn’t good enough to be one of the almost 100 quarterbacks employed in the NFL. That was my point. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I obviously don't know anything about American football, but the argument that it was pure coincidence that he couldn't get picked up by a single team after being cut by the San Francisco 49ers (less than six months after he started kneeling during the anthem) doesn't seem to stand up to scrutiny:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/colin-kaepernick-is-not-supposed-to-be-unemployed/
| Quote: | Last week, reports circulated that Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh and general manager Ozzie Newsome were both interested in signing Kaepernick, but were met with resistance by owner Steve Bisciotti, who framed hesitance over signing Kaepernick as a PR concern.
“Your opinions matter to us,” Bisciotti said at a fan event, referring to fan opinion over Kaepernick. “We’re very sensitive to it, and we’re monitoring it, and we’re still, as Ozzie says, scrimmaging it, and we’re trying to figure out what’s the right tact. So pray for us.”
Kaepernick’s ability to play the position no longer seems to be in doubt. Players have spoken in support of Kaepernick, and most serious analysis reliant on game study arrives at the conclusion that Kaepernick is not just a competent quarterback, but is also better than he was when he led the 49ers to the Super Bowl in 2013. Cian Fahey, who catalogues quarterback performance at Pre-Snap Reads, found Kaepernick to have outplayed Ravens starter Joe Flacco.
And yet Kaepernick doesn’t have a team. It’s obvious Kaepernick is being frozen out for his political opinions, but it’s less apparent how extraordinary it is that a player like him can’t find a team. Back in March, Neil Paine and I wrote about Kaepernick’s situation and noted that it was strange for even a halfway decent quarterback to remain unsigned so deep into free agency. Four months later, it’s no longer merely unusual — it’s practically unheard of. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | I obviously don't know anything about American football, but the argument that it was pure coincidence that he couldn't get picked up by a single team after being cut by the San Francisco 49ers (less than six months after he started kneeling during the anthem) doesn't seem to stand up to scrutiny:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/colin-kaepernick-is-not-supposed-to-be-unemployed/
| Quote: | Last week, reports circulated that Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh and general manager Ozzie Newsome were both interested in signing Kaepernick, but were met with resistance by owner Steve Bisciotti, who framed hesitance over signing Kaepernick as a PR concern.
“Your opinions matter to us,” Bisciotti said at a fan event, referring to fan opinion over Kaepernick. “We’re very sensitive to it, and we’re monitoring it, and we’re still, as Ozzie says, scrimmaging it, and we’re trying to figure out what’s the right tact. So pray for us.”
Kaepernick’s ability to play the position no longer seems to be in doubt. Players have spoken in support of Kaepernick, and most serious analysis reliant on game study arrives at the conclusion that Kaepernick is not just a competent quarterback, but is also better than he was when he led the 49ers to the Super Bowl in 2013. Cian Fahey, who catalogues quarterback performance at Pre-Snap Reads, found Kaepernick to have outplayed Ravens starter Joe Flacco.
And yet Kaepernick doesn’t have a team. It’s obvious Kaepernick is being frozen out for his political opinions, but it’s less apparent how extraordinary it is that a player like him can’t find a team. Back in March, Neil Paine and I wrote about Kaepernick’s situation and noted that it was strange for even a halfway decent quarterback to remain unsigned so deep into free agency. Four months later, it’s no longer merely unusual — it’s practically unheard of. |
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This is the precise point I was making - and with which Wokko wouldn’t engage.
The position is simple: I don’t want him starting at Green Bay ahead of Aaron Rodgers - but he’d give my team a better than decent chance of winning if Rodgers is missing, which is what your second and third quarterbacks are for. Of course, my team happens to have a certain first-ballot Hall of Famer under centre, so the question of whether he’s better than Rodgers is not a fair one.
CK is plainly also behind, eg, Brady, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Wilson, Brees, Big Ben and Ryan. But he would certainly be in the mix as equal to or better than the rest of the starting quarterbacks in 2018 and 2019 - and a number of those are actual spuds who would never have been under centre ahead of CK if their teams hadn’t been “warned off” from recruiting him. As an avid (and impartial) watcher of the game, it is beyond obvious to me that CK was and still is a better quarterback than a bunch of people who have played as starting quarterbacks for their teams since 2016. Without wasting my time pointing out the screamingly obvious at length, I would mention the Washington starters of the last two seasons - Smith (who was, of course, pushed out by CK at the 49ers and has continued to have a lucrative career, without doing anything memorable or especially competent), Johnson, McCoy, Sanchez, Keenum and Haskins. Keenum is the only one of that lot who has done anything of significance (in a playoff game for the Vikings, remembered mostly for the improbability of the team winning with him at QB) in the League. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The NFL has long since paid him compensation to settle his collusion case. It is generally thought the settlement was of the order of between about $30 million to $40 million. I bet that if you got sacked, couldn’t get another job in your industry because everyone conspired to preclude you being employed and then you brought a collusion case and got paid $30 million to settle it, you’d think it was fair to conclude that you were sacked because you “sucked”, too.
You’re just not interested in dealing with the actual argument. I’m not going to engage further with you about this, since you obviously have no idea about the NFL and are just most unfairly smearing Kaepernick. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | .
The NFL has long since paid him compensation to settle his collusion case. It is generally thought the settlement was of the order of between about $30 million to $40 million. I bet that if you got sacked, couldn’t get another job in your industry because everyone conspired to preclude you being employed and then you brought a collusion case and got paid $30 million to settle it, you’d think it was fair to conclude that you were sacked because you “sucked”, too.
You’re just not interested in dealing with the actual argument. I’m not going to engage further with you about this, since you obviously have no idea about the NFL and are just most unfairly smearing Kaepernick. |
You're not going to engage because you're wrong, but whatever gets you through the night. |
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