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Dandrews' strength of leadership vs. Scotty's dithering

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:27 pm
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David wrote:
....... (something that the China stuff mentioned above is probably not wholly unrelated to; you could write a whole book on connections between the Labor Right and Chinese business interests)......Still, ironically, probably the best state government in the country, despite it all!


Andrew Robb says hello😉

I suspect China and its influence is not exclusive to the ALP. Gladys whatshername and a Federal Liberal Party Seat / election campaign.

Had Morrision not been so stupid and clumsy to begin with firing undiplomatic shots without doing the necessary hard work / diplomatic manoeuvrings behind the scenes (re China) we might not have been in this trade war we really can’t win. Morrison fires blanks and embarrassed China. At the end of the day you don’t get what you want internationally by megaphone diplomacy: after all China’s megaphone is a lot bigger than ours.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:57 pm
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Tony Wright on branch stacking:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/bring-out-your-dead-tales-from-the-branch-stacking-front-20200615-p552t8.html

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:14 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
David wrote:
....... (something that the China stuff mentioned above is probably not wholly unrelated to; you could write a whole book on connections between the Labor Right and Chinese business interests)......Still, ironically, probably the best state government in the country, despite it all!


Andrew Robb says hello😉

I suspect China and its influence is not exclusive to the ALP. Gladys whatshername and a Federal Liberal Party Seat / election campaign.

Had Morrision not been so stupid and clumsy to begin with firing undiplomatic shots without doing the necessary hard work / diplomatic manoeuvrings behind the scenes (re China) we might not have been in this trade war we really can’t win. Morrison fires blanks and embarrassed China. At the end of the day you don’t get what you want internationally by megaphone diplomacy: after all China’s megaphone is a lot bigger than ours.


Don’t want to hijack the topic (there’s already a thread for this), but yes, it’s definitely something that crosses party lines. My hunch is Labor Right and the Liberal "moderate" factions are where this is most heavily concentrated. Make of that what you will!

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:24 pm
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You're right there's a thread for this, WPT is posting crap.

The CCP is feeling the pressure and lashing out, which practically should suit us fine. They've put their cards on the table for everyone to see.

Yeah, they have a good deck but the only thing that will make them happy at the moment is if Morrison gets on bended knee and blows Xi. That must not happen.

Where they've pharked up is they've clearly signaled their intentions assuming we have no options but suck and swallow. They're wrong, we can live without them.

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:33 pm
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The evidence is clearly against this view David. Yes, the Labor right are serious players, but the Labor left manages to survive against them, and you don't survive against those bastards by being a nice, quiet chap. Just the same, it is the Labor right which is, on that side of politics, very much more the heavy party machine. So on that count, I agree.

However, there is bugger all evidence to suggest that the moderate Liberals play the party heavy game or the branch stack caper anywhere near as hard as the hard-liners on the right of the Liberal Party. Look at the near-complete takeover of the Victorian Liberals by the religious right in recent years. Or look at the Queensland branch and Dutton's party goons. Or, simply look at the number of moderates in the federal parliament. How many exactly? No-one knows, 'coz if any of the estimated handful puts his hand up and tries to do or say anything remotely moderate, he gets heavied by Dutton's goon squad quick smart.

A little evidence of this came out when Turnbul was axed, but most of it was hushed up. (Of course. All parties do that if they can.) Nevertheless, we can see the results: the party has held relentlessly hard-right policy positions on everything important for the last decade and still counting.

As for the religious fruitcakes running the Victorian party, don't even think about it.

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:40 pm
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Hang on, there's still a Liberal party in Victoria? With MP's and stuff? For real?

I thought Dan had them wound up and given to JFK to clip the grass at Hawthorns training ground, the rabble that show up to parliament are what gave the AFL and NRL the idea to use cardboard cutouts in the grandstand.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:49 pm
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Yeah, the Libs in Victoria are so neutered it's not funny. Right wingers in Victoria, what a joke Laughing

As for the Feds it was the moderates in full control and full hubris when Turnbull was in power. Pyne et. al were mocking the Liberal right like crazy. As it transpired we ended up with a Centrist PM not of either side.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:26 pm
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David wrote:
watt price tully wrote:
David wrote:
....... (something that the China stuff mentioned above is probably not wholly unrelated to; you could write a whole book on connections between the Labor Right and Chinese business interests)......Still, ironically, probably the best state government in the country, despite it all!


Andrew Robb says hello😉

I suspect China and its influence is not exclusive to the ALP. Gladys whatshername and a Federal Liberal Party Seat / election campaign.

Had Morrision not been so stupid and clumsy to begin with firing undiplomatic shots without doing the necessary hard work / diplomatic manoeuvrings behind the scenes (re China) we might not have been in this trade war we really can’t win. Morrison fires blanks and embarrassed China. At the end of the day you don’t get what you want internationally by megaphone diplomacy: after all China’s megaphone is a lot bigger than ours.


Don’t want to hijack the topic (there’s already a thread for this), but yes, it’s definitely something that crosses party lines. My hunch is Labor Right and the Liberal "moderate" factions are where this is most heavily concentrated. Make of that what you will!


NSW right have a long history of branch stacking ( they were filling some branches with the Ustashi (Croatian Nazis) back in the 70’s.
Vic right wing has been stacked with religious ultra conservative right wingers.
To call Morrision middle of the road with respect to left right Federal politics is simply naive or ill informed.

With respect to China, Morrison totally f*cked up by going so early on his own: that is beyond debate unless you’re only reading is the Murdoch press. However, the calls to patriotism let alone the Coronavirus has meant there has been little critical analysis of Morrison’s actions and consequences.

This is a bit dated but points to the notion of NSWliberal factionalism:

https://insidestory.org.au/the-liberal-partys-faction-problem/

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:35 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/apr/21/scott-morrison-master-of-the-middle-may-pull-coalition-out-of-a-muddle
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:46 am
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Trouble in the ruling party of Dandrewstan

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/daniel-andrews-and-anthony-albanese-battle-internal-blowup/news-story/627bdea098c78c5ae045d1a133e3273d?fbclid=IwAR0VUvIudrjhGNSXrb3FuzBkY8zXIwcWA-rsxKUxFqYSk-8DrvdfMFDizcY
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:52 am
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3 down, how many to go?

Somurek sacked
Asst Treasure Robin Scott resigns
Minister for Consumer Affairs, gaming and Liquor Regulation Marlene Kairouz resigned. (Like you'd want to be squeaky clean in that job wouldn't you?)

Despite being sacked as a Minister and resigning from the Labor Party, Somurek now settles back on the back bench on over $180k pa, beholden to no one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-16/adem-somyurek-ally-marlene-kairouz-quits-branch-stacking-scandal/12358610

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:01 pm
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watt price tully wrote:


With respect to China, Morrison totally f*cked up by going so early on his own: that is beyond debate unless you’re only reading is the Murdoch press.


Utter bullshit.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-13/coronavirus-china-australia-foreign-students-threats-federal-gov/12350738?section=analysis

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:06 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
watt price tully wrote:


With respect to China, Morrison totally f*cked up by going so early on his own: that is beyond debate unless you’re only reading is the Murdoch press.


Utter bullshit.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-13/coronavirus-china-australia-foreign-students-threats-federal-gov/12350738?section=analysis


Nice link but does zero with respect to your term “bullshit”.

Morrison f*cked up with respect to China and how to go about bilateral trade. You miss the point. The point is not to be beholden to China, not to grovel but not to force them into a diplomatic corner either as he did when he first called for an international investigation into the CornaVirus.
What we got was a watered down investigation into nothing while losing trade.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:10 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
3 down, how many to go?

Somurek sacked
Asst Treasure Robin Scott resigns
Minister for Consumer Affairs, gaming and Liquor Regulation Marlene Kairouz resigned. (Like you'd want to be squeaky clean in that job wouldn't you?)

Despite being sacked as a Minister and resigning from the Labor Party, Somurek now settles back on the back bench on over $180k pa, beholden to no one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-16/adem-somyurek-ally-marlene-kairouz-quits-branch-stacking-scandal/12358610


Somurek despite being a sociopath (surely a pre-requisite for a numbers man) still should be allowed the presumption of innocence .... as galling as that is.

Well done so far Premier Daniel Andrews.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:16 pm
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For anyone that is foolish enough to think Scotty from Marketing is a centrist:

https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2020/may/1588255200/lech-blaine/hillsong-s-strange-tides

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