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George Floyd Police killing and protests

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:39 pm
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There is zero reason for a citizen to use pepper spray against an officer and probably a million reasons why an officer should use pepper spray on a citizen.

There should be an imbalance of power between police and citizens.

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:03 pm
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Even if one agrees with that point fundamentally, the question of how much power imbalance is a deeply important one, and will have a huge impact on how people live.

It’s also not controversial that pepper spraying, kicking or punching a police officer should be against the law. But a seven-year prison sentence is beyond manifestly excessive.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am
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Bulls hit.

You only thin that because in Victoria you can kill someone drunk driving and be out in 3 years

Thugs who go around bashing people should get a jail term every time and costs, and it should be double for doing it to any first responder.

The Capitol riots very nearly ended in people getting killed,it was lucky those inside found a safe place and then the cops got to them before the thugs. 7 is justice, and also, did they gave priors? We’re they protestors for hire?

All 6 cops involved in this must go down, including the white one for instigating. It defies belief that not one tried to stop it.

It is also true that far too many cops in the US die because they pull a car over for a traffic stop or similar.

Black Lives Matter? All of them? Or just the ones that die at the hands of cops? Do their lives matter more than the cops shot and attacked every day there? Black or white? How about the thousands of black men killed on the streets by other black men in the never ending gang wars? The collateral damage kills?

Honestly where will it end?

No way I’d be a cop in the US, no respect, shit pay, and in danger every time they put a uniform on. Clearly they are running out of candidates,that’s the only explanation for the 6 cops WHO MUST HAVE KNOWN THEY WERE ON TAPE! The mind boggles

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:21 am
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David wrote:
Even if one agrees with that point fundamentally, the question of how much power imbalance is a deeply important one, and will have a huge impact on how people live.

It’s also not controversial that pepper spraying, kicking or punching a police officer should be against the law. But a seven-year prison sentence is beyond manifestly excessive.


Yep, it is excessive, given, unlike Guy Reffitt, he was not charged with inciting violence (Reffitt got 7 years). I'd think on appeal he'll be out.

In terms of how much, if citizens feel like they can argue, run, attack, dispute an officer, then it currently isn't enough.

I'd argue that 99.999% of all police related assaults wouldn't happen if the offender just shut up, sat down and listened to the officer.

Instead we have people arguing, or reaching back into their cars or claiming to be a fkn sovereign citizen.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:38 pm
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David wrote:
It seems close to a law of nature that an insufficiently regulated police force will eventually devolve into bands of violent gangsters terrorising the community. This is a much more pronounced problem in other countries (e.g. Russia), but obviously the US is some way down that road.

The answer isn’t necessarily to defund the police, but it’s definitely to radically shake them up and curtail their powers " and, in some cases, to completely disband some corrupt police forces and start again from scratch.


My solution to that would be to take Policing out of the hands of counties and cities and mke it a state responsibility, similar to in Australia.

Proper selection process and training and proper wages, better quality of Police.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:03 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/28/memphis-police-scorpion-unit-disbanded
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:04 pm
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3 The Guardian links in a row.

You really need to diversify your reading.

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Pies4shaw Leo

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:53 pm
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I'm a little tired of the sniping from you, especially given that you obviously know so little about so many topics.
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LaurieHolden Aquarius

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Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:38 pm
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C'mon lads, back to objective reasoning, not subjective point scoring. Keep the debate lively and informative by all means, but maybe take a breather and don't let it get personal.
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:12 pm
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I read this and thought, this could equally be crap spewing from the mouth of Lidia Thorpe.

Quote:
D’Zhane Parker, a Board member for the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation released the following statement regarding the video footage released of the brutal murder of Tyre Nichols at the hands of the Memphis Police Department:

“Tyre should be alive today. He mattered to everyone except those upholding state-sanctioned violence and a dangerous cycle of white supremacy.


https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-global-network-foundation-statement-on-the-murder-of-tyre-nichols/

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:49 am
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Weren’t you suggesting just a page ago that the ethnicity of the perpetrators meant his life would be considered to be of lesser value than those of black men killed by white officers?
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:09 am
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It has been. Still didn't stop some at BLM "trying" to make it a black vs white issue.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:56 am
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For the record, the dehumanisation of a person's own race can easily to them persecuting someone of the same race. This is extremely well-known in war, occupation and colonisation. It's also been a major theme in literature forever, from the Hebrew Bible to postcolonial literature.

Koreans still get enraged when talking about Koreans who collaborated with the Japanese, many of whom were brutal to their own race. I've seen hints of it myself among expats when they experience cultural cringe towards their own ethnicity.

It can be as simple as opportunism ('no one's going to care about this bloke anyhow'); a more complex reaction such as self-loathing or denial; or a separation of identities ('I'm a cop, he's black, and everyone hates them'). Etc.

It's not rocket science.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:18 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
David wrote:
It seems close to a law of nature that an insufficiently regulated police force will eventually devolve into bands of violent gangsters terrorising the community. This is a much more pronounced problem in other countries (e.g. Russia), but obviously the US is some way down that road.

The answer isn’t necessarily to defund the police, but it’s definitely to radically shake them up and curtail their powers " and, in some cases, to completely disband some corrupt police forces and start again from scratch.


My solution to that would be to take Policing out of the hands of counties and cities and mke it a state responsibility, similar to in Australia.

Proper selection process and training and proper wages, better quality of Police.


It would help, that’s for sure.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2024 9:53 am
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This is reasonably disturbing - this man was convicted of murder and then pardoned by the Governor of Texas before he was sentenced. In the quote below from the news report, you can substitute "Prosecutors said" with "The jury found that", since he was convicted.

Quote:
Prosecutors said Perry, who was stationed at Fort Hood, initiated the fatal encounter when he ran a red light and drove his vehicle into a crowd gathered at the protest. Foster was openly carrying an assault-style rifle " legal in Texas " and approached Perry’s car and motioned for him to lower his window, at which point Perry fatally shot him with a handgun, prosecutors said.

Remarkably:
Quote:
Shortly after Perry’s conviction in April 2023, Abbott said he wanted to pardon Perry and issued an unusual request for the state Board of Pardons and Paroles to expedite a review of the case before a sentence was handed down.


So he ran a red light, drove his car into protestors and then shot and killed (as it happens) another former soldier who made the mistake of having a progressive view in Texas. Compare and contrast this with the way Texas cheerfully carries out death penalty sentences.

Whatever we think about law and order, it simply cannot, in a civilized society, be meted out to those we don't like when we don't mete it out to those we agree with.

Sometimes, the start of armed conflict is only obvious looking back. In 50 years, the history books may well treat this as a minor event in a second American Civil War that's already started.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/16/us/daniel-perry-texas-pardon-recommendation/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc
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