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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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All makes perfect sense that Israel and Jews in general are responsible for the US Police record of killing Black people in disproportionate numbers.
If you're a complete fvcking moron 
The Jews just can't seem to take a trick with extremist nut jobs, when one of the right or left is metaphorically sodomising them, the other is either waiting their turn or making it a spit roast
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ Nonsense. It's all a gigantic Jewish conspiracy. Haven't you learned nuffin yet?
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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All part of the post-Corbyn purge – not of anti-Semites, but the Labour left.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey-sacked-labour
| Quote: | There was never really a campaign against antisemitism in the Labour Party — there was a campaign to brand Corbyn and his supporters as antisemites, which is something very different. That campaign relied upon the debating tactic known as the Gish gallop, in honor of the creationist ideologue Duane Gish. Gish would wheel out a whole series of false or misleading claims, each of which took longer to refute than to make, in the hope of bamboozling his audience.
In this case, we would have to imagine a debate where Gish had several hours to make his case, with the assistance of a megaphone, while his opponents had a few minutes for rebuttal at the end, struggling to make their voices heard over a chorus of booing. Journalists and politicians have repeated the main points of this particular gallop so many times that they’ve hardened into conventional wisdom, despite their inherent fatuity.
[...]
Starmer’s evident desire to placate the Labour right will come with a hefty price tag in terms of political orientation. Already Labour MPs have started grumbling that they had to vote against xenophobic immigration laws: “a significant number of us were incandescent at the whip,” one backbencher claimed. Starmer probably won’t face the same kind of open mutiny as Corbyn, but that’s because a strategy of attrition is likely to be more effective in chipping away at residual left-wing policy commitments.
Meanwhile, Starmer has sacked his left-wing opponent Rebecca Long-Bailey from the shadow cabinet on a farcical pretext. Long-Bailey had shared an interview with the actress Maxine Peake, a prominent Labour supporter who campaigned tirelessly for the party in the last two general elections. Peake noted in passing that the Israeli military provides training for US police forces — a well-established fact that underlines the elective affinity between two forms of state racism.
Claims that Long-Bailey was promoting an “antisemitic conspiracy theory” should be dismissed with the contempt they so richly merit. Long-Bailey’s critics are the ones guilty of antisemitism, by holding Jewish people collectively responsible for the actions of the Israeli state. At a time when Benjamin Netanyahu’s government is preparing the formal annexation of the occupied territories, such tawdry exercises in mudslinging are the only thing Israel’s supporters can offer in its defence.
In any case, Starmer was clearly grasping for the first excuse he could find to remove Long-Bailey from her post as shadow education secretary. |
As for the "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory" that US police are trained by the Israeli military, well ... seems like that’s just an inconvenient fact. And hardly surprising, either, given Mossad’s long ties to the West and Western authoritarians’ hard-on for them. I doubt we’ll ever know whether the technique for killing Floyd was learned at one of these seminars – they deny it, of course – but honestly, would you be surprised, given the wanton thuggery practised against civilians in Israel?
https://www.amnestyusa.org/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/palestinians-deadly-police-tactics-200611004902866.html
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Oh dear.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Well posted, David.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Yeah, well posted. Utter garbage but yeah, well posted.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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What, exactly, are you disputing?
That Israel has deep links to the US security forces? Matter of public record.
That Corbyn, useless prick that he was, was crucified by a relentless and unfair campaign to brand him a racist? Again, this was an open process there for all to see.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Tannin wrote: | What, exactly, are you disputing?
That Israel has deep links to the US security forces? Matter of public record.
That Corbyn, useless prick that he was, was crucified by a relentless and unfair campaign to brand him a racist? Again, this was an open process there for all to see. |
rubbish Corbyn was too slow to act and encouraged by his inaction encourged rampant bullying and harrassment some of which was anti semtiic. Not all of it was but some of it was. This is beyonf debate.
Exhibit 1: This is basically one of many examples of anti antisemitism in Corbyn's labour party.
"..The episode of Panorama entitled “Is Labour Anti-Semitic?” was broadcast this summer and made a number of claims about Labour’s attitude towards the issue in recent years. It interviewed party activists and officials who said they were undermined by senior Labour bosses in their attempts to tackle antisemitism..."
One can be anti Zionist and not anti Semitic
Equally one can be anti Zionist and anti Semitic and be of the left
Most anti antisemitism is from the right
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/31/bbc-to-reject-labour-complaint-panorama-antisemitism-episode
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | What, exactly, are you disputing?
That Israel has deep links to the US security forces? Matter of public record.
That Corbyn, useless prick that he was, was crucified by a relentless and unfair campaign to brand him a racist? Again, this was an open process there for all to see. |
I have zero interest in Corbyn, I dispute that Israel has trained city Police departments to kill black people. Having links to US security forces isn't having associations with Cities Police departments.
Those disposed to be Palestinian sympathisers would lay fault for every problem in the world at Israels feet.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | What, exactly, are you disputing?
That Israel has deep links to the US security forces? Matter of public record.
That Corbyn, useless prick that he was, was crucified by a relentless and unfair campaign to brand him a racist? Again, this was an open process there for all to see. |
I have zero interest in Corbyn, I dispute that Israel has trained city Police departments to kill black people. Having links to US security forces isn't having associations with Cities Police departments.
Those disposed to be Palestinian sympathisers would lay fault for every problem in the world at Israels feet. |
Nail hit head
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | All part of the post-Corbyn purge – not of anti-Semites, but the Labour left.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey-sacked-labour
| Quote: | There was never really a campaign against antisemitism in the Labour Party — there was a campaign to brand Corbyn and his supporters as antisemites, which is something very different. That campaign relied upon the debating tactic known as the Gish gallop, in honor of the creationist ideologue Duane Gish. Gish would wheel out a whole series of false or misleading claims, each of which took longer to refute than to make, in the hope of bamboozling his audience.
In this case, we would have to imagine a debate where Gish had several hours to make his case, with the assistance of a megaphone, while his opponents had a few minutes for rebuttal at the end, struggling to make their voices heard over a chorus of booing. Journalists and politicians have repeated the main points of this particular gallop so many times that they’ve hardened into conventional wisdom, despite their inherent fatuity.
[...]
Starmer’s evident desire to placate the Labour right will come with a hefty price tag in terms of political orientation. Already Labour MPs have started grumbling that they had to vote against xenophobic immigration laws: “a significant number of us were incandescent at the whip,” one backbencher claimed. Starmer probably won’t face the same kind of open mutiny as Corbyn, but that’s because a strategy of attrition is likely to be more effective in chipping away at residual left-wing policy commitments.
Meanwhile, Starmer has sacked his left-wing opponent Rebecca Long-Bailey from the shadow cabinet on a farcical pretext. Long-Bailey had shared an interview with the actress Maxine Peake, a prominent Labour supporter who campaigned tirelessly for the party in the last two general elections. Peake noted in passing that the Israeli military provides training for US police forces — a well-established fact that underlines the elective affinity between two forms of state racism.
Claims that Long-Bailey was promoting an “antisemitic conspiracy theory” should be dismissed with the contempt they so richly merit. Long-Bailey’s critics are the ones guilty of antisemitism, by holding Jewish people collectively responsible for the actions of the Israeli state. At a time when Benjamin Netanyahu’s government is preparing the formal annexation of the occupied territories, such tawdry exercises in mudslinging are the only thing Israel’s supporters can offer in its defence.
In any case, Starmer was clearly grasping for the first excuse he could find to remove Long-Bailey from her post as shadow education secretary. |
As for the "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory" that US police are trained by the Israeli military, well ... seems like that’s just an inconvenient fact. And hardly surprising, either, given Mossad’s long ties to the West and Western authoritarians’ hard-on for them. I doubt we’ll ever know whether the technique for killing Floyd was learned at one of these seminars – they deny it, of course – but honestly, would you be surprised, given the wanton thuggery practised against civilians in Israel?
https://www.amnestyusa.org/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/palestinians-deadly-police-tactics-200611004902866.html |
Your're being dis-ingeniousness David.
There is zero actual evidence that Israel taught the police the methods used to kill George Floyd: zero, nada, zilch.
Funny about that as there is a simple reason for that: it is because there isn't any as it didn't happen . However guilt by association means that rhetoric fits the narrative to the exclusion of evidence.
However Israel as opposed to say Hamas, Hezbollah, the PA, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc is a human rights abuser; 
Israeli police deal with terror every day not some abstract debating point on Nicks. They are skilled at surveillance and prevention of murder hence why they are used.
Do they overstep the mark at times: sure they do
Are some of them racist: I'm sure there are some
Do they get punished and face an inquiry and court and get stood down (yes, yes and yes)
Does it happen enough; probably not
Now compare and contrast with say all of their neighbouring states & territories as this ought to be a basis of comparison: does it happen there? I don't think so.
Police forces assist each other all of the time. The issues with George Floyd was the specific example of saying that Israel taught the US police to do this which there is not one shred of evidence to say that they did.
This was promulgated by Roger Waters, the actress, the rabid left and the pro-Palestinian or anti Israel lobby. It is a smear. a lie and simply not supported by the facts. However it is designed to fit a particular unthinking reflexive narrative.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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From the horses mouth that is the bloke who designed the US- Israel Police exchange 19/6/2020
I Am the Architect of the U.S.-Israel Police Exchange. Don’t Believe the Lies.
"...Recent events seem to have given this libel new life. The UC Campaign for Palestinian Rights, for instance, lately declared that the “Israeli military trains U.S. police in racist and repressive policing tactics, which systematically targets Black and Brown bodies.” A petition by academics and students in the University of California system also invoked the police exchanges while claiming that the chokehold “used to murder George Floyd” was “perfected” by Israeli forces.
These accusations are false and, at best, expose a deep misunderstanding of the nature and objectives of police exchanges. More likely, they are motivated by virulent bias.
The truth is, JINSA’s Homeland Security Program was launched in the wake of the September 11th attacks in order to address the well-recognized counterterrorism needs of local law enforcement in the U.S. Since that time, more than 200 U.S. federal, state, county and municipal law enforcement executives have traveled to Israel as part of the program, while thousands of personnel have attended conferences with Israeli experts in the U.S.
Despite suggestions to the contrary, there is no field training involved in either the conferences or trips, and no training on holds or arrest mechanics. The exchanges, which are hosted by the Israel National Police, focus on effective counterterrorism techniques.
Participants learn how Israeli law enforcement deters, disrupts, and responds to terrorist attacks. They explore the ideology of suicide bombers and other attackers, ways to de-escalate an ongoing incident, and the intelligence-gathering and -sharing process....
https://jinsa.org/i-am-the-architect-of-the-u-s-israel-police-exchange-dont-believe-the-lies/
My god the facts don't fit the narrative
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Well, good luck reading through the spin above, I guess. I find it’s incredibly difficult to find trustworthy sources when it comes to Israel/Palestine stuff, particularly in the British press – a lot of propaganda on both sides, and I would say an extreme defensiveness on the part of the Israel lobby and its supporters whenever any acknowledgement (let alone criticism) of their actions emerges. So the very existence of powerful lobbies like AIPAC, and a shadowy group like Mossad, becomes something not to be spoken of – which is ridiculous given both are powerful organisations that exert varying degrees of influence on American politics.
Ultimately, I’ll grant that the claim about the chokehold (which was a not unreasonable hunch, but certainly a long way from an established fact) was unsubstantiated and should not have gone to print without evidence. But sacking Long-Bailey over merely retweeting an article about an unrelated topic that made the claim in passing was a disgraceful act by Starmer, and clearly aimed at winning internal battles. Sadly, that internal battle is over the future of Labour as a progressive party capable of advocating for workers’ interests, and Starmer’s reactionaries are well and truly winning. The flagrant exaggerations and outright lies about Labour left anti-Semitism are one of their most effective tools.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Well the bloke who designed the policy is described as spin but the rhetoric without evidence from Amnesty is what, journalism? To my mind its just using associations and imagery. Don't get me wrong the Israeli Goverment has been brutal in the way it treats the people it controls but we do need to be cautious about allowing anti zionist rhetoric to mimic fact.
Sorry, I don't accept the Corbyn stuff either. He is not wholly innocent.
Do aspects of the Corbyn left also not exaggerate and lie or are they magically above that and somehow that is the exclusive domain of the so called Zionist lobby?
I just find it so simplisitc and almost a caricature.
Try this for size about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism during his reign. The behaviour of some of his acolytes in some branches was simply disgusting.
"Ten myths about Jeremy Corbyn and Labour antisemitism deconstructed
JC editor Stephen Pollard takes apart claims by the leader and Labour's General Secretary Jennie Formby"
https://www.thejc.com/comment/analysis/jeremy-corbyn-fact-and-fiction-stephen-pollard-1.494040
Keir whatshisname is showing a zero tolerance approach to a person who has form. He is trying to reach out to those the party alienated, bullied and a scared off. The jewish community is diverse by they most of the time vote labour and democrat. Corbyn single handedly got rid of them such that more than 86% of the community thought he was an anti semite. I don't think he was or is.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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