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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Post subject: Salary Cap Cloggers: middle tier |  |
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Like a bad haircut, sometimes it takes 2-3 more to get it back to normal and one can't help but feel that the off-field inefficiencies of 2014-17 are still being felt today. With 5 Football Managers in 4 years:
* Geoff Walsh
* Rodney Eade
* Neil Balme
* Gubby Allan
* Geoff Walsh Part 2
the legacy and interfering on list management decisions meant we severely overcapitalised our middle class performers:
* L.Greenwood:recruited on $450,000 X 4 years (when $450,000 was high)
* Chris Mayne: recruited on $500,000 X 4 years
* J Aish: has been on $400,000-$500,000 entire time
* D.Wells: was on $600,000 X 3 years
* Mason Cox: $1million over 3 years 2015-17 and $500,000 2017-20
* Tyson Goldsack: $400,000+ for 3 years to stave off Port in 2014
* M.Scharenberg: $400,000+ for 2018-20 to stave off Crows
* Ben Reid: been on big coin for last 7 years whilst injured
With Hine back in talent ID and Ned Guy 12 months into his List Management charter, a severe correction in list profiling and paying is hopefully being undertaken. Without professing to understand the inner workings, I would hope that a complete internal re-structure is taking place as we speak.
Something like this:
Tier 1: $75,000-$300,000:
* Includes all rookies, first 2 year draftees and basic jobber players
eg. Noble, Tohill, Murphy, Stephenson, Dunn etc..
Tier 2: $300,000-$450,000:
* Includes emerging talent, B graders who've reached their ceiling
eg. Maynard, Thomas, Phillips, Mihocek
Tier 3: $450,000-$600,000:
* includes B+ to A grade talent, prized recruits etc..
eg. Crisp, Howe, Adams, Beams Elliott, Moore
Tier 4: $600,000-$750,000:
* elite consistent reliable talent, elite prized recruits, superstar potential
eg. Treloar, Sidebottom, DeGoey
Tier 5: $750,000-$1,000,000:
* includes superstars, top 20 league matchwinners
eg. Brodie Grundy and Scott Pendlebury (Tom Lynch types)
The Connundrum:
What does Ned Guy do to retain Moore and DeGoey when they're both yet to finish top 5 in a Copeland, have fitness and poor injury profiles yet are so talented an elite A grade esque in their abilities???
Brodie Grundy? To me it's the easiest decision to make. Give him 6 years at the money asked and re-negotiate his 2020 payment up in the latter years so essentially give him 7 years. He is a once in a generation example with:
* Two Copeland wins
* Two top 5's
* Two All Australians
* Total industry respect
All by the junior age for Ruckmen be it 25 years old!! Magpies!!!! Reward this man and celebrate what a bona fide Champion he is! Don't get cute and low ball him. We have essentially given Treloar and Adams extensions which mean they're on 6+ year deals and here we are offering Brodie 3 years?? C'mon Ned, get to work on this.
That aside, continue the good work Ned and rate and reward our talent accordingly!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum
Last edited by inxs88 on Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Post subject: Re: Salary Cap Cloggers: middle tier | |
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| inxs88 wrote: |
the legacy and interfering on list management decisions meant we severely overcapitalised our middle class performers:
* L.Greenwood:recruited on $450,000 X 4 years (when $450,000 was high)
* Chris Mayne: recruited on $500,000 X 4 years
* J Aish: has been on $400,000-$500,000 entire time
* D.Wells: was on $600,000 X 3 years
* Mason Cox: $1million over 3 years 2015-17 and $500,000 2017-20
* Tyson Goldsack: $400,000+ for 3 years to stave off the Crows in 2016
* M.Scharenberg: $400,000+ for 2018-20 to stave off Crows
* Ben Reid: been on big coin for last 7 years whilst injured
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I'm interested to know where you got this information from inxs. Is it freely available? |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Post subject: Re: Salary Cap Cloggers: middle tier | |
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: |
the legacy and interfering on list management decisions meant we severely overcapitalised our middle class performers:
* L.Greenwood:recruited on $450,000 X 4 years (when $450,000 was high)
* Chris Mayne: recruited on $500,000 X 4 years
* J Aish: has been on $400,000-$500,000 entire time
* D.Wells: was on $600,000 X 3 years
* Mason Cox: $1million over 3 years 2015-17 and $500,000 2017-20
* Tyson Goldsack: $400,000+ for 3 years to stave off the Crows in 2016
* M.Scharenberg: $400,000+ for 2018-20 to stave off Crows
* Ben Reid: been on big coin for last 7 years whilst injured
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I'm interested to know where you got this information from inxs. Is it freely available? |
The salaries come from multiple media reports at the times of signings combined with a good memory. Read enough, dig deep enough and they’re pretty accurate
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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LaurieHolden 
Floreat Gymnorhina tyrannica
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Location: Victoria Park
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| E wrote: | | Honestly, how many different ways do we want to hear how INXS88 thinks all of our problems come from paying probably $200k per year in the aggregate for a group of veterans more than we needed to (most of whom are likely leaving). All the while encouraging us to pay overs for two superstars who will likely be on this very same list in 4 years time!!!!! |
Just because it's not 'official' doesn't mean he doesn't get to share his view. Not as if it the post is a single inflammatory byline like some of the numpties on here. It's considered and taken time to collate the information.
Keep up the negative feedback though, I'd miss the banter stemming from your and INXS88 posting tennis.
In any event, irrespective if some posts don't always hit the mark, passion rings true, makes our supporter base all the richer.
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"The Club's not Jock, Ted and Gerry" (& Eddie)
2023 AFL Premiers |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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Sharing a view is one thing, trying to pass off assumptions as fact is another. A bit arrogant if you ask me. I don't care how passionate you are, don't make shit up
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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AnthonyC
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Approximates
_________________
I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | Sharing a view is one thing, trying to pass off assumptions as fact is another. A bit arrogant if you ask me. I don't care how passionate you are, don't make shit up |
Not assumption. Research, media reports at the time, player manager chats plus club media releases all add up to a near if not in some cases very accurate summation of our payments. Think we all know the Greenwood, Mayne and Wells salaries are public knowledge now.
_________________
I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| So should salaries be made public? They are in most US leagues, I think. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Why? So people can obsess over them even more?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| I don't know. Ask the Americans. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I think it reduces pointless speculation. If you know that a particular quarterback is getting $117 Million over 6 years, you roll with it. Also, if you know that your team still has only $8.96 Million available in its salary cap, approaching trade deadline, you know they can still add a couple of solid passrushers and you evaluate your team's recruitment accordingly. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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More and more AFL contracts have clauses that factor in personal best KPIs ( fitness levels ) and games played inducements. Plenty of contracts include performance payments based on B and F finishes etc. Who would have thought that player managers almost earn their money these days. It’s a clubs right to set the bar high in a new contract and it’s a managers job to swing it to back in favour of the player.
I’m yet to be convinced the numbers that are available for public “ scrutiny “ are as cut and dried as they would have you believe anyway. As they say, the devil is in the detail, not the headline. |
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Jpies
Joined: 09 Apr 2016
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| Pies2016 wrote: | More and more AFL contracts have clauses that factor in personal best KPIs ( fitness levels ) and games played inducements. Plenty of contracts include performance payments based on B and F finishes etc. Who would have thought that player managers almost earn their money these days. It’s a clubs right to set the bar high in a new contract and it’s a managers job to swing it to back in favour of the player.
I’m yet to be convinced the numbers that are available for public “ scrutiny “ are as cut and dried as they would have you believe anyway. As they say, the devil is in the detail, not the headline. |
I've often wondered about this. Specifically, how do clubs ensure that they stay below the salary cap where the contracts are based on KPIs? If there was only one common KPI (e.g position in the b+f) then it would be easy, you'd just set aside a set amount of $$ to cover the bonuses payable to each place for which bonuses are payable. But I'm not sure how that would work where different KPIs are used for different players, like games, goals etc. Surely, you couldn't determine how much your total payments would be, leaving you open to going over. You'd imagine that clubs would need to be conservative and ensure they come in "under". In that case, you'd have to wonder whether the cap is being used efficiently. Could we have recruited better players by spending it all? Or do the incentives lead to improved performance significant enough to outweigh the underspend? |
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woodys_world69
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Brisbane
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Maynard definitely has not reached his limit...lol
We have a 13mil cap as of 2019.
The problem with list management is you either spend it all and risk not getting a player from another club... Or be North Melbourne and have huge cap space but fail in recruiting anyone to fill it.. And lay at the bottom of the ladder |
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