War with Iran?
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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FWIW
Quote: | But when Mr Trump asked his question on Thursday about how many Iranians could die in the strikes, the answer gave him pause.
He was told 150 Iranian lives were at stake.
"I thought about it for a second," Mr Trump told NBC, "and I said: 'You know what? They shot down an unmanned drone, plane, whatever you want to call it."
"And here we are sitting with 150 dead people that would have taken place probably within a half an hour after I said go ahead.' And I didn't like it … I didn't think it was proportionate." |
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-22/what-happened-in-the-crucial-ten-minutes-before-trump-cancelled/11237932 _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Coming from the mouth of a serial liar and manipulator like Trump, sadly, it's worth zero.
This is how he works: keep everyone mired in misinformation and doubt so in the end the most beneficial scenario can be claimed.
Trump's role is to run interference for crazed Republicans in exchange for unfettered self gory; who knows what the actual power brokers are up to. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I don't think one has to have any sympathy for Trump to take the, say, New York Times report on this incident at face value.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/trump-iran-strike.html
I think he's a lot less smart and in control than you give him credit for, PTID. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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What else can they do? The entire order of logic and sanity rests on being able to repeat what the US President says on the assumption it is truthful, especially in the arena of war. If those around him repeat it enough it quickly morphs into fact simply for the sake of fluent communication. However, dig into the NYT and other outlets and they question everything that has transpired, even if they euphemistically phrase the problem as Trump's 'style' casting a shadow over events.
This is a general philosophical problem that hems us all in: you either have to assume the world and mainstream social structures are relatively reliable, or you have to take a more radical view and move to the outside. The NYT and ABC are hardly going to do the latter, so they're forced to take the conversation at face value, at least initially.
The difference in this case, though, is that we are literally dealing with a known pathological liar who works alongside others with a track record of lying about these matters. It would be extraordinarily naive to believe anything at all about the topic at this stage, including anything coming from Tehran.
The possibilities in the theatre of the absurd that Trump has created are endless. Anything about this whole business over the last month could be true, false, half true, unclear, fabricated or misleading. And yes, deceit is not just the realm of Trump; we can all recall that the Bush Administration were pathological liars, while the war and political machines can never be trusted.
The matter of Trump's intelligence is far more complex than you make out. The bloke is a genius manipulator and media man; grandiose narcissists often are. It takes considerable talent and know-how to do what he does, including declaring bankruptcy that many times and still finding funds, and then conning half a country into voting for you. At the same time, he is grossly ignorant, self-absorbed and unqualified.
As I say, Trump is a brilliant used car salesman and TV man running media interference for Republicans in exchange for glory. The relationship is symbiotic; I've never once thought he was solely in control of anything, hence the bit about not knowing what the actual power brokers think.
To quote the only memorable line from The Big Bang Theory: he is brilliant at what he does, it's just that what he does isn't worth doing. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Thanks PTID. That article really does lay out how unnecessarily $%$ed the situation already is.
On Bolton and his warmongering cronies, I find little to disagree on with Tucker Carlson here, particularly from 5:30:
https://youtu.be/-c0jMsspE7Y
Quote: | He’s fine with the outcome in Iraq, too; that wasn’t a disaster either. According to John Bolton, it was a raging success: we killed hundreds of thousands of people, lost thousands of our own troops, spent over a trillion dollars, all to eliminate a WMD threat that, despite John Bolton’s assurances, never existed in the first place. [....]
Last night has been in the works for years. John Bolton is a kind of bureaucratic tapeworm: try as you might, you can’t expel him; he seems to live forever in the bowels of the federal agencies, periodically re-emerging to cause pain and suffering – but, critically, never suffering himself. His life really is Washington in a nutshell: blunder into obvious catastrophes again and again, refuse to admit blame and then demand more of the same. |
_________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Yeah, I also thought Carlson nailed it.
The only thing keeping the U.S. from war is that Trump's white, working-class base aren't interested in dying for oil, big business or Israel.
He needs his base for 2020. After that, all bets are off. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Tucker is 100% spot on. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Tehran sets up terror cells in Africa as Western sanctions bite
Iran is setting up a network of terror cells in Africa to attack US and other Western targets in retaliation for Washington’s decision to impose sanctions against Tehran, according to Western security officials.
The new terror network has been established on the orders of Qassem Suleimani, the head of the Quds Force, the elite section of Iran’s Republican Guard Corps that has responsibility for overseas operations.
The aim of the new terror cell is to target US and other Western military bases on the continent, as well as embassies and officials.
The Iranian cells are said to be active in a number of African countries including Sudan, Chad, Ghana, Niger, Gambia and the Central African Republic.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/24/tehran-sets-terror-cells-africa-western-sanctions-bite/ _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Quote: | “Iran is setting up a new terrorist infrastructure in Africa with the aim of attacking Western targets,” a senior Western security source told The Daily Telegraph. “It is all part of Tehran’s attempts to expand its terrorist operations across the globe.” |
And we should believe these "senior Western security sources" why? Ever heard the expression "once bitten, twice shy"? _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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If the West is serious about tackling terrorism, it wouldn't turn a blind eye to the activities of Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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David wrote: | Quote: | “Iran is setting up a new terrorist infrastructure in Africa with the aim of attacking Western targets,” a senior Western security source told The Daily Telegraph. “It is all part of Tehran’s attempts to expand its terrorist operations across the globe.” |
And we should believe these "senior Western security sources" why? Ever heard the expression "once bitten, twice shy"? |
Next, there will be a thread on all the bad things Iran has done, refreshed daily with Facebook news to keep it at the top of the board.
Iraq War groundhog day has come so soon after the original debacle. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Trump could've started the war already but didn't. There are elements in his cabinet who are itching for it but he's kept them in check so far. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a 'Hezbollah' attack on US interests in the next couple of months to try and goad him. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Wokko wrote: | Trump could've started the war already but didn't. There are elements in his cabinet who are itching for it but he's kept them in check so far. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a 'Hezbollah' attack on US interests in the next couple of months to try and goad him. |
So he would have you believe. He's certainly narcissistic enough to be goaded into something at other people's expense, so anything could unfold.
Thankfully, he probably would rather avoid war because he's out of his depth in an institutional military context. You can't be draft-dodging Captain Bone Spurs and talk confused drivel in the arena of war.
Yes, at least he's 'better than Bush', with the latter's failed wars and incompetent response to various disasters. But Bush voters are overwhelmingly Trump voters, and Bush's neocons and swindlers are now Trump's neocons and swindlers. The risk of horror outcomes is every bit as high.
Trump's role, much like a clown at a rodeo, is to distract from the fact that we're dealing with the same extreme and corrupt GOP wreckers. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Why don't you mention Obama's failed wars? Stop being a partisan hack. |
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