US election 2020
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| Who do you hope wins the US Election? |
| Trump |
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39% |
[ 9 ] |
| Biden |
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39% |
[ 9 ] |
| Don't Care |
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21% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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I think the Democratic nomination is down to two: Sanders and Bloomberg.
Warren had good poll numbers for a while, but she's lost momentum and Biden is a basketcase.
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| watt price tully wrote: |
Nails it: Bernie plays right into his opponent’s hands. Merit and logic are not features of the right wing in the US. They much prefer the simply disastrous health care system they have now where millions are without health cover.
It’s far easier to exploit fear and encourage resentment |
With respect, this reads like typical NYT hand-wringing. Sanders has built up a constituency from nothing, and has done it precisely through his own chosen slogans and self-descriptors. To ask him to walk it all back now and rebrand is to ask him to become like every other politician: willing to bend to whatever the latest focus group is responding positively to. Sanders receives support precisely because people see him as sincere and principled. I’m very sceptical about the degree to which Trump and the Republican Party can exploit the socialist boogeyman, because they’ve cried wolf too many times. Clinton and Obama were socialists too in their eyes. There’s no small power in being able to say "yeah I am, so what?"
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| At least he’s not a lying billionaire sociopath. The bar is obviously set fairly low in US politics. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | At least he’s not a lying billionaire sociopath. The bar is obviously set fairly low in US politics. |
May I introduce you to “Fatty McF*ckface” as he’s not affectionately known Clive Palmer, Scotty from Marketing Mr Sports Rorts (why won’t this go away) Morrison, Pauline Hanson, David (glass jaw)Leyonhjelm?
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
Nails it: Bernie plays right into his opponent’s hands. Merit and logic are not features of the right wing in the US. They much prefer the simply disastrous health care system they have now where millions are without health cover.
It’s far easier to exploit fear and encourage resentment |
With respect, this reads like typical NYT hand-wringing. Sanders has built up a constituency from nothing, and has done it precisely through his own chosen slogans and self-descriptors. To ask him to walk it all back now and rebrand is to ask him to become like every other politician: willing to bend to whatever the latest focus group is responding positively to. Sanders receives support precisely because people see him as sincere and principled. I’m very sceptical about the degree to which Trump and the Republican Party can exploit the socialist boogeyman, because they’ve cried wolf too many times. Clinton and Obama were socialists too in their eyes. There’s no small power in being able to say "yeah I am, so what?" |
Yes, but having your own 'base' is hardly an achievement; that's the easiest bit by miles and frequently a major part of the problem. I respect Sanders' consistency, like him as a person and public figure, and consider him as trustworthy a person as you're probably going to find in public life. But they're not the only considerations here. I want to know what he's going to do for business, trade and the economy; to see if he has a full platform and can reach across constituencies.
For the record, from what I can tell neither the institutionals nor Sanders captures my own position, which sees redress, social quality, business success, economic strength, incentive and security as things which need to be held in permanent tension. Hawke-Keating and a few others have come close to pursuing it. It's a pity, because I think Elizabeth Warren understands this balancing act and could potentially nail the policy mix, but again she lacks traction as a public figure beyond her base.
All of this, of course, set against the background of the Creep-in-Chief's extraordinarily dangerous fasco-protectionism, which is unlocking forces his diseased mind and tiny hands have no hope of grasping.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yeah, I was thinking Warren might be an ideal candidate for you, but I also understand why you’re not all that enthused about her. I’d still be okay with her as nominee if Sanders didn’t make it, though I worry a little about how she’d fare as a candidate against Trump. I think her problem is that she’s tried to be too many things to too many people, and perhaps taken on the (perfectly logical) mantle of the compromise candidate between the Sanders left and the party mainstream too readily – the trouble with doing that is you risk losing any solid base from which to grow support. You’d think she’d stand a good chance in theory if there’s a brokered convention, but she can’t come from nowhere; without at least a decent share of delegates, it’s going to look farcical if she gets the nod in a situation where neither Sanders or Bloomberg can gain a majority.
At least Biden’s campaign is coming to a quick and merciful end. This is honestly just kind of sad to watch:
https://mobile.twitter.com/WhiteSoxSlater/status/1228396492324507652 |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Quite possibly, but this was 25 years ago FFS. Not a very pleasant thing to say to someone, I struggle to see how you could take court action against them though.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Wokko is spot on in his diagnosis, I reckon. This is no one-off thing; Bloomberg has a long, long record of saying stuff like this. There's no need to overthink this: if it crawls like a snake, it's a snake.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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The right-wing press have been trying to conjure a 2020 Clinton candidacy for ages; now that's impossible, I guess this will be their next obsession. I'm not saying it's totally beyond the realm of possibility (who really knows with Bloomberg), but I'll take anything on that coming from the Drudge Report with a grain of salt.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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In reality, neither Bloomberg or Sanders should be being seriously considered.
The Democrats have usually gone younger than the Republicans.
Obama - 47 at start of Presidency
Bill Clinton - 46
Jimmy Carter - 52.
Yeah, we have to go back to Carter to get 3 Democrat POTUS's
Sanders, Biden and Bloomberg should be throwing dirty looks at each other in a nursing home, not running for POTUS.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | | Trump's bawdy jocularity |
When you want something so badly you'll convince yourself of anything.
No one on the planet would leave their daughter alone with the Creep-in-Chief for 30 seconds.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Trump's bawdy jocularity |
When you want something so badly you'll convince yourself of anything.
No one on the planet would leave their daughter alone with the Creep-in-Chief for 30 seconds. |
I would. I've seen what aggravated 55kg chick can do to much larger male.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | | Wokko is spot on in his diagnosis, I reckon. This is no one-off thing; Bloomberg has a long, long record of saying stuff like this. There's no need to overthink this: if it crawls like a snake, it's a snake. |
Except there is a need to use the rest of your brain because you're weighing up a list of factors that go beyond the visceral; you can't suddenly pretend you're non-utilitarian.
Trump is moral dog faeces, but you might otherwise consider voting for him despite himself if he had constructive policies rather than billionaire tax cuts, environmental protection rollbacks, healthcare rollbacks, national destabilisation, global GDP suppression, fasco-protectionism, fasco-executive abuse, etc.
The effects matter. Trump's second term will be about paying for the billionaire tax cuts and setting the mob on new victims to justify social service cuts. And do you think the world will continue to tolerate ongoing GDP suppression without biting back? So yes, there is a need to think harder.
Psychiatric stability and leadership credentials also need to be assessed. Trump was always an unstable narcissistic wrecker, had no mates except other cheap cons, and was never able to build a self-sustaining reputable organisation. And boy, does it show.
That still may mean Sanders is the right choice, but don't fall for the fundamentalist moral card trick until you get a better look at the policies. Ideally, of course, you get solid principles, leadership credentials and decent policy in one package, but it's going to take a serious tradeoff analysis.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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