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ICC Test players' Ratings.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:22 pm
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Donny wrote:
I suggest you look at the pre-Test careers of McGrath, Warne and S Waugh.

Close to all 3 being included in an Aussie best ever Test team.

Some players find their true level, in Tests - as Smith has done.

Legspinner are different from batsmen. We all know they need time. (I don't know McG & S. Waugh's Shield performances without looking them up.) As someone said to me decades ago, Waugh's ODI starring role was keeping him in the Test team for the first half of his career. Then his Test form was keeping him in the ODI team for the second half. (Of course, he was Test-only for the last few years. And he was famously dropped for his brother in the earlier years.)


Marnus has played Sh. Shield for years. If he were an AFL player, people would nod their heads and call him a "good average footballer".

I think he's a handy cricketer all-round. But it's unlikely at this stage that he's a batsman of the absolute highest rank. (Certainly not one who should be averaging 80+ for years of Test cricket.)

The best hope Smith fans have (in the face of the extremely unflattering comparison between Marnus and Smith) is that this is some sort of fluke for Marnus. That could be the case, but it'll be a fluke that lasts 2+ years. Not long enough to rule out fluke just yet, but it's not just a series or two. My point, of course, is not to criticise Marnus. My point is that he's performed far, far better than Smith in the two years since he came back into the Test team. For me, Marnus defines the par performance, so that means Smith has failed miserably even on the very flat Oz decks.

Really, Marnus's numbers show Test pitches in Oz are way too flat (the flattest in the world now, which is a total reversal of tradition). It's a national disgrace.

---------------------------------

Meanwhile, it's been revealed that the best batsman in the world, Kane Williamson, has been nursing a torn tendon in his left elbow for half a season. Shocked

Why would you play a meaningless slogathon series when you have a serious injury like that? Shocked It's crazy. I can understanding battling through a Test match, but not ODIs or slogathons.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:01 pm
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Well, if you're going to be failing to trouble the scorers against decent opposition for most of the season, it's good to be able to identify an injury. Funny that it didn't stop him racking up runs against third-rate attacks in the between times.

His batting average in that recent run of T20s or whatever it was I was skimming through on Kayo would look poor as a hitting average in baseball, let alone in cricket.
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:03 pm
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Will be interesting to see what rating points Rashid gets for his 11 wickets.

Before the just completed Test, he was ranked 41st. on the ICC Bowlers' list.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:15 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
...
Funny that it didn't stop him racking up runs against third-rate attacks in the between times.
...

You tried and failed with this line before. Smith's average against a weaker Pakistan attack (the one with the 16-year-old fast bowler) was 20 on dead pitches made for his Flat-Track Bullying. And Smith is Yasir Shah's bunny. Shah has taken his wicket 7+ times from a limited number of Tests. Do you really want to go down the path of slagging off Pakistan's bowlers? You claimed your cat could score a century against Pakistan. Then your cat must be far superior to Smith, who now, as I showed above, is struggling even to do the Flat-Track Bullying bit. (Elephant in the room: "good average" batsman Marnus has been more than twice as good as Smith for the last two years.)


I haven't heard a squeak from you about Mitch Perry, with all of two games' Shield experience, utterly dominating Smith. Just a teeny weeny bit of help for the bowlers was too much for Smith's defective technique to handle. This was a mere days after Smith slogged meaningless runs in a meaningless one-day game against the same opponent. Clear signs that he is a Flat-Track Bully.

If Perry had just dismissed Smith and nothing else, it would still be noteworthy. But before that, Smith just couldn't score. I reckon it's because he relies on playing across the line to the legside. That works well when the pitch is dead and there is no movement. When there's some movement, it fails.

Coming in at #3, even in a Shield match against kids, was too high for Smith. His defective technique can't handle it.

And in the second innings, Sutherland dismissed Smith, and Smith had a temper tantrum. Dunno why he wasn't fined. Harris just got suspended for a match for on-field behaviour. Zampa was suspended for a slogathon match for audible obscenity. Why are they not clamping down on Smith's long history of misbehaviour?
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:25 pm
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Defective technique ??

Is this the same batsman who averages 62 in Tests, with 27 centuries ?

Also has 11 ODI tons at an average of 43.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:27 pm
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I've already explained many times why that average is artificially inflated.

Marnus has averaged 82+ for the last two years. Do you think Marnus is a great batsman? Marnus is the best comparison we have, because they bat in the same team in adjacent positions. It's the closest we can get to batsmen facing the same bowlers in the same batting conditions and the same match situations.

The pitches are way too flat. The ball does not move. People foolishly seem to believe the ball should never move. Shocked If the ball never moves, no respectable batsman should ever get out.


You mention ODIs. I've already shown that Joe Root's ODI record is far superior to Smith's. I chose Root because it feels like half of England has wanted him dropped from their ODI side for the last five years.


Smith's defective technique relies on him playing across the line to the legside. That works when there's no movement and no spin. That's why he cannot handle any swing. (And why he has a known weakness against the ball spinning away.) Did you see him face a single swinging ball in the last series? I didn't. I'm almost certain he did not face a single swinging ball in Sydney. I reckon he goes through entire Tests and maybe even entire Test series without having to face a single swinging ball.


K (March, 2020) wrote:
Joseph Edward Root

137 ODI inns, 5933 runs, ave. 51.05, SR 87.40, 16 100s.

Steven Peter Devereux Smith

109 ODI inns, 4148 runs, ave. 42.76, SR 86.68, 9 100s.


Joe Root is clearly far, far, far superior to FTB Smith in the number 3 ODI spot. Yet, there are constant headlines and opinions questioning his short-form value, so it's delusional to believe that FTB Smith is any more than passable.

e.g.

Joe Root hungry to prove his worth to one-day plans after being dropped from final T20

(Independent, 11 July 2018)

Joe Root Should Bat Lower On England’s Cricket World Cup Team

(Forbes, July 2 2019)

"Root is England’s best batsman in test cricket. But is he in the one-day format? 50 overs cricket is a different animal, even if it is not as different as the slogfest that is T20.
...

It seems churlish to question the Yorkshireman’s role, given that he is a top quality player who has scored 476 runs, including two centuries, at an average of 68 in this World Cup.

But. But. ..."
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:46 pm
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Root is a spud. If you want to discuss Root and Smith in the same sentence, you need to have that conversation with yourself, in the mirror.
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K 



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:31 pm
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Well, that's the point. (Not that I have a view on whether Root should be in England's ODI side.) Root is clearly far superior to Smith in ODIs. The record is unambiguous there. Just look at it.

If I show that some clearly great ODI player has a much better record than Smith, it doesn't say much about Smith.

But when someone you claim is a "spud" has an inarguably far superior record, then it speaks volumes about Smith: It shows Smith cannot be a good ODI player.

It's simple, really. If you're much worse than someone allegedly bad, then you must be very, very bad.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:09 pm
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Smith is the best-performed batsman of the last 70 years. WTF are you doing posting about one-day scores in the Test Rankings thread? It's becoming boring.
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


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Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:50 pm
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Before the first Test, England v. NZ.

1 Kane Williamson 919
2 Steve Smith 891
3 Marnus Labuschagne 878
4 Joe Root 869
5 Virat Kohli 838
6 Babar Azam 760
7 Henry Nicholls 747
8 Cheteshwar Pujara 727
9 David Warner 724
10 Ben Stokes 721

Will be interesting to see how Williamson's double failure (14 & 1) costs him. Root will be relatively unaffected, for his two 40s.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:54 pm
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He was better with the ball than the bat, Donny. He probably goes up to, say, 134 in the "all-rounder" rankings.

Lucky it was a weak England bowling line up on a very flat-track, really.
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Donny Aries

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:04 am
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Over the years, only the very best are able to maintain a 900+ rating. Williamson dropped 24 points. Root, 33.

1 Kane Williamson 895.
2 Steve Smith 891
3 M Labuschagne 878
4 Joe Root 836
5 Virat Kohli 814
=6 Rishabh Pant, Rohit Sharma 747
8 Henry Nicholls 744
9 David Warner 724
10 Babar Azam 714

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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


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Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:14 am
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Bowlers.

Tim Southee moves into the top 3.

Stuart Broad drops 39 points.

1 Pat Cummins 908
2 Ravi Ashwin 850
3 Tim Southee 838
4 Josh Hazlewood, Neil Wagner 816
6 James Anderson 803
7 Stuart Broad 768
8 Jason Holder 755
9 Kagiso Rabada 753
10 Mitchell Starc 744

19 Nathan Lyon 668

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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


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Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:41 pm
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Again, interesting to see how Joe Root (11 & 4) fares in the post Test ratings. Williamson will also lose points. For whatever reason, a no show costs. Smith could well move back to #1.

Rabada (6/60) and Holder (4/75) will improve their positions in the top 10. Although wickets and runs against the lowly Windies earn fewer points than if they had played a top team.

de Kock will move up from 23rd. for his 141 n.o.

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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:01 am
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After the England/NZ Tests.

Batsmen.

1 Steve Smith 891
2 Kane Williamson 886
3 M Labuschagne 878
4 Virat Kohli 814
5 Joe Root 797
6 Rishabh Pant, Rohit Sharma 747
8 Henry Nicholls 732
9 David Warner 724
10 Babar Azam 71

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