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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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That was pretty extraordinary – saw it a couple of weeks ago. Makes you wonder what other medieval-style intrigue is happening in the Vatican.
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I think it might be like the disinformation sent by the Russians to Guilianni about Bidens son being up to no good: didn't happen.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I don't think we have enough information in either case to confidently assert that. The allegations may or may not be true, but do you really reckon the Italian press are making stuff up on an Australian cardinal's behalf?
(As for the Hunter Biden stuff being painted as a Russian op, I have a bridge in St Petersburg to sell anyone who's swallowed that narrative whole. But I will try to resist going off-topic.  )
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | I don't think we have enough information in either case to confidently assert that. The allegations may or may not be true, but do you really reckon the Italian press are making stuff up on an Australian cardinal's behalf?
(As for the Hunter Biden stuff being painted as a Russian op, I have a bridge in St Petersburg to sell anyone who's swallowed that narrative whole. But I will try to resist going off-topic. ) |
The Republican head of the FBI has stated this (re Biden). So I'm going off that.
Have you got Hilary making a Margarita with extra cheese too?
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | I don't think we have enough information in either case to confidently assert that. The allegations may or may not be true, but do you really reckon the Italian press are making stuff up on an Australian cardinal's behalf?
(As for the Hunter Biden stuff being painted as a Russian op, I have a bridge in St Petersburg to sell anyone who's swallowed that narrative whole. But I will try to resist going off-topic. ) |
The Republican head of the FBI has stated this (re Biden). So I'm going off that.
Have you got Hilary making a Margarita with extra cheese too? |
"...• The granular details of many of the allegations about Hunter Biden’s dealings in China are supported by documentation, but larger conclusions resurrected at the end of the 2020 campaign are unsubstantiated.
• Foreign policy experts say these allegations do not add up to a picture of Joe Biden being corrupt or pursuing policies contrary to the national interest. There is no evidence that Hunter Biden came close to breaking the law, much less any evidence that his father has done so.
• Critics say that the Trump family’s financial entanglements are at least as problematic, if not more so, than the Bidens’.."
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/19/fact-checking-claims-about-hunter-biden-joe-biden-/
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | I don't think we have enough information in either case to confidently assert that. The allegations may or may not be true, but do you really reckon the Italian press are making stuff up on an Australian cardinal's behalf?
(As for the Hunter Biden stuff being painted as a Russian op, I have a bridge in St Petersburg to sell anyone who's swallowed that narrative whole. But I will try to resist going off-topic. :P) |
The Republican head of the FBI has stated this (re Biden). So I'm going off that.
Have you got Hilary making a Margarita with extra cheese too? |
I think this is the problem – too many people see US politics as a binary and presume that if a Republican is opposing Trump, he must be on "our" side. But I’d argue that the Republican and Democratic party establishments, as well as the intelligence community, actually have rather a lot of common vested interests, and sometimes overstating national security threats to boost their own agenda (whether it be war with Russia or greater agency powers) can be a part of it. Basically, I don’t trust these people one bit.
My take on the Hunter Biden thing is this:
1) the fact that, when his dad was VP, he sat on the board of a Ukrainian oil company despite having no relevant experience and raked in huge amounts of money for it is incredibly dodgy – and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work out why he was given that position;
2) while there has been no previous evidence that the company got their money’s worth (i.e. by getting access to Joe), there is a serious allegation in the leaked documents that suggests that Biden Sr did, in fact, meet with a company member despite his claims to the contrary;
3) the provenance and legitimacy of these leaked documents and photographs seems unclear, and it’s reasonable to be somewhat sceptical, but we should be equally sceptical of the "Russian disinfo" claims – remember that the Podesta emails, hacked by Russians or not (we still don’t know, despite infinitely repeated claims to the contrary) in 2016 were originally claimed to be fakes too;
4) Twitter and Facebook were way out of line to blacklist the piece, which was absolutely newsworthy and, from my understanding, still not factually discredited, though if anything their attempt at censorship probably only brought more attention to it;
5) The story itself about Hunter (who is, of course, not running for office) has nonetheless always been a bit of a nothingburger, and while people should be disgusted by this kind of corruption, it is extremely widespread and Trump and his family are a particularly gratuitous case in point. Even if everything in it were proven to be 100% true, I doubt it would shift a single vote. So I think arguing the merits of the story itself is kind of beside the point; it’s the responses to it that have been more interesting and alarming, in my view.
As for equating questioning the FBI’s trustworthiness with supporting the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, kidding or otherwise, I do wonder nowadays if Trump’s biggest legacy will be the complete lack of anything resembling a shared perception of reality among the general population (both in the US and abroad). Seems to me that everyone’s increasingly in their own bubble, surrounded by people who echo the same viewpoints, and are increasingly unable to tell truth from propaganda when the latter is coming from sources that their side approves of. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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There are two main sources for the story. They are Rudi Guiliani (Trump's dirty tricks lawyer) and Steve Bannon (Trump's former campaign chief).
And people like David believe them ....
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Tannin wrote: | There are two main sources for the story. They are Rudi Guiliani (Trump's dirty tricks lawyer) and Steve Bannon (Trump's former campaign chief).
And people like David believe them .... |
No, there are three: The New York Post
Planet America tonight basically put to bed the issues re Biden (no evidence) of corruption. As my second post above re fact checking, Trump is far safer bet for wrongdoing. Still....
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Tannin wrote: | There are two main sources for the story. They are Rudi Guiliani (Trump's dirty tricks lawyer) and Steve Bannon (Trump's former campaign chief).
And people like David believe them .... |
I wouldn’t trust either of them to tell me the time of day. But I don’t trust the other mob either – and particularly not the "Iraq totally has WMDs, trust us" crowd.
As far as I can tell, the veracity of some of the documents is contested while others (e.g. photos) appear legitimate. Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yeah, but this is fundamentally different, in my view, because they weren't scurrilously reporting on the allegations against Pell or even mentioning the fact that there was a court case happening – instead, they were reporting on their own censorship, which in my view was fundamentally in the public interest; nothing clickbaity about it. I usually have no problem with the courts going after the media, but on this it really does feel like they're prioritising their own interests (i.e. judges' capacity to arbitrarily impose suppression orders) over that of the public, who were hardly served by that call to begin with. Basically, it all seems rather petty and vindictive.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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It was all about clickbait/ratings/revenue.
That's what drives the media these days. You want to get funding to do a great investigative piece? What's the potential ROI is the first question, is it in the public interest is only pulled out as a defense.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Figure this is as good a place as any to put this (as I doubt he’ll be getting an RIP thread!)
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101843096
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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since its not i'll just say no great loss!!!!
though id be interested to see his interview at the pearly, or not so pearly gates!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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