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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I wouldn't go that far. 
It has some excellent parts and some very shit parts but it's a system that's evolved with no planning and can't directly compare to the UK or AUS systems
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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People will travel there from 'universal healthcare' countries for treatment. I mean yeah, you pay for it but everyone with a decent job over there has insurance.
If you need the best care you go to the USA.
Poor people there still get urgent care, doctors can't refuse treatment. They just don't get it in a solo room at a private hospital, they have to go to county hospitals.
The USA because of their system is where almost all the medical innovation happens, sure their system is far from perfect, but people thinking it's a third world shithole are just parroting propaganda.
Last edited by Wokko on Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It’s not just about quality of service, though – it’s about medical bills. I’m sure we’ve all seen the horror stories. The best care in the world isn’t much help if you’re too poor to access any of it or too scared about racking up debts. And by the time people turn up for urgent treatment it may be way too late.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm a fan of the concept that anyone can get dragged into an ED and get treated without getting a bill. That doesn't happen in the USA but that's not how their system evolved.
If you do some research into their system, it's whacked. They get some brilliant research and teaching outcomes and some horrible care outcomes for the poor, while you have some people in the system drawing down some very serious coin (and others getting far call)
Sanders glib medicare for all was a great slogan, but a logistical and financial quicksand whirlpool.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | Whatever has happened in China is irrelevant to Trump’s culpability. By my estimation, the US just ticked over 1,000,000 cases of COVID-19.
You don’t get 6,803 deaths from 270,000 cases in a functional health system. The true figure is likely to be well over 1,030,000, as I write. |
i doubt any american would tell you they have a functioning health care system |
We clearly move in different circles when in the States. I have spoken to people adamant that their health system is fine |
thats because they havent experienced a good one, or rather, a free one.
the care might be great, probably the best, but only if you can afford it
i remember on the ship to mexico a lady and her hubby were on their daughters honeymoon because the hubby got sick, i cant remember what it was, and they just could not afford to go away. the prices she quoted for basic tests were terrifying. i thought MRIs used to be expensive! And also the fact that the parents had saved for a different trip, which they would now not make for another 5 years, as they had to pay their daughter and hubby for the cruise tickets - they had a basic cabin, about $500aus each.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | It’s not just about quality of service, though – it’s about medical bills. I’m sure we’ve all seen the horror stories. The best care in the world isn’t much help if you’re too poor to access any of it or too scared about racking up debts. And by the time people turn up for urgent treatment it may be way too late. |
ah, i see you beat me to it!!
my dad got taken to Warnambool emergency tonight by ambulance, hes in a bad way, sounds like septicaemia, its moved from his legs to his groin. I spoke briefly to his nurse, and she outlined the tests and things and mentioned bringing in a surgeon tonight if necessary. not one mention of insurance or who pays. just the best care they can give him.
and yes, i do realise how bad this is.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | I spoke briefly to his nurse, and she outlined the tests and things and mentioned bringing in a surgeon tonight if necessary. not one mention of insurance or who pays. just the best care they can give him. |
Absolutely. You look at how utopian this idea is in America and realise how lucky we are, and how much we take it for granted. One day someone’s going to bring Medicare for all in over there – could be Democrat or Republican, who knows – and the country will never look back. They’ll just wonder why it took so long.
Hope your dad will be okay.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | | It’s not just about quality of service, though – it’s about medical bills. I’m sure we’ve all seen the horror stories. The best care in the world isn’t much help if you’re too poor to access any of it or too scared about racking up debts. And by the time people turn up for urgent treatment it may be way too late. |
As a function of cost the outcomes are embarrassing such that if it were a business in a proper competitive market it would be Donald bankrupt because people would flock to competitors. And that's even with the brain drain advantage of superpower status.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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I personally blame the irresponsible morons who elected a reality TV joke to the most serious position in the world. It's a farce now realised in the most tragic way imaginable.
| Frum in the Atlantic wrote: | The United States is on trajectory to suffer more sickness, more dying, and more economic harm from this virus than any other comparably developed country.
That the pandemic occurred is not Trump’s fault. The utter unpreparedness of the United States for a pandemic is Trump’s fault. The loss of stockpiled respirators to breakage because the federal government let maintenance contracts lapse in 2018 is Trump’s fault. The failure to store sufficient protective medical gear in the national arsenal is Trump’s fault. That states are bidding against other states for equipment, paying many multiples of the precrisis price for ventilators, is Trump’s fault. Air travelers summoned home and forced to stand for hours in dense airport crowds alongside infected people? That was Trump’s fault too. Ten weeks of insisting that the coronavirus is a harmless flu that would miraculously go away on its own? Trump’s fault again. The refusal of red-state governors to act promptly, the failure to close Florida and Gulf Coast beaches until late March? That fault is more widely shared, but again, responsibility rests with Trump: He could have stopped it, and he did not.
The lying about the coronavirus by hosts on Fox News and conservative talk radio is Trump’s fault: They did it to protect him. The false hope of instant cures and nonexistent vaccines is Trump’s fault, because he told those lies to cover up his failure to act in time. The severity of the economic crisis is Trump’s fault; things would have been less bad if he had acted faster instead of sending out his chief economic adviser and his son Eric to assure Americans that the first stock-market dips were buying opportunities. The firing of a Navy captain for speaking truthfully about the virus’s threat to his crew? Trump’s fault. The fact that so many key government jobs were either empty or filled by mediocrities? Trump’s fault. The insertion of Trump’s arrogant and incompetent son-in-law as commander in chief of the national medical supply chain? Trump’s fault.
For three years, Trump has blathered and bluffed and bullied his way through an office for which he is utterly inadequate. But sooner or later, every president must face a supreme test, a test that cannot be evaded by blather and bluff and bullying. That test has overwhelmed Trump.
Trump failed. He is failing. He will continue to fail. And Americans are paying for his failures. |
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/609532/
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | I spoke briefly to his nurse, and she outlined the tests and things and mentioned bringing in a surgeon tonight if necessary. not one mention of insurance or who pays. just the best care they can give him. |
Absolutely. You look at how utopian this idea is in America and realise how lucky we are, and how much we take it for granted. One day someone’s going to bring Medicare for all in over there – could be Democrat or Republican, who knows – and the country will never look back. They’ll just wonder why it took so long.
Hope your dad will be okay. |
thanks David, i finally got to talk to him, he sounds really out of it, waiting from a call from the doc, which could be anytime in the next couple of days. all i know for now is doing tests, and more tests.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: |
Absolutely. You look at how utopian this idea is in America and realise how lucky we are, and how much we take it for granted. One day someone’s going to bring Medicare for all in over there – could be Democrat or Republican, who knows – and the country will never look back. They’ll just wonder why it took so long.
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The reason it will take so long and can't work the way it works in Australia and the UK is that their whole system is completely different. There is no comparable public hospital system to enable this to happen, only 21% of their hospitals are government owned, the rest are private sector.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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The biggest obstacle will basically be special-interest groups like that – particularly the insurance industry, which will do anything to preserve its profits. The issue isn't just about electing the right president; even if Sanders had gotten the Democratic nomination and beaten Trump, he still would have faced a super-hostile congress full of Democrats and Republicans who have been bought out by these companies – so I think there really needs to be a revolution down-ballot, with centrist Democrats primaried and forced out. There were hopes that that would happen this year by capitalising on opposition to Trump's presidency and the vast network of Sanders supporters, but the coronavirus shutdown has made insurgent campaigns a virtual impossibility.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^Dream on Comrade!
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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