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| How many Syrian refugees should Australia take? |
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52% |
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| A few hundred |
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2% |
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| A few thousand |
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5% |
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| Over ten thousand |
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5% |
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| As many as possible |
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35% |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Interesting that these "refugees" from such conflict hotspots as Turkey choose to bypass many quiet, safe countries on their way to Germany, France, Sweden and the UK. The fact these countries don't have generous social welfare of course has nothing to do with these decisions.
What we're seeing in Europe is the inverse of having a policy like Australia's, so we're going to see a lot more people dying on the way there. What did refugees like my partner's grandparents receive when they got here in the 50s from Hungary? I'm sure they weren't handed the kind of lottery win that Western countries are handing out now while all still have native homeless crises of their own. Also, take another look at some of the pictures of these hordes of refugees, they're young, fighting age men and are being waved through without any checks and balances at all. Europe is in for some troubled times, I hope Abbott sticks to his guns. I would, I might add be more than happy to bring in some Syrian Christians or Yazidis who are being truly persecuted, if not outright facing genocide. If Europe want to throw out the welcome mat to all and sundry then that's on them. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I thought so too. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | The top five countries accommodating Syrian refugees are, in fact, from the Arab world - Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt, to be specific. Having said that, I agree with you that the gulf states are not pulling their weight right now.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-rich-arab-gulf-states-wont-welcome-syrian-refugees-2015-9?IR=T
As for Iran, well, as active sponsors of the Assad regime, it's little wonder that it wouldn't be high on the list as a refuge for Assad's victims. |
^ You're right, I shoudl have said the Gulf States. While we are on such matters, though, I assure you that Turks are not really in any respect Arabs, as you suggested. The Turks are indeed taking the strain to the greatest extent, here.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Except when it comes to Kurds. The Turks fkn hate them. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Really you don't think so? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Wokko wrote: | Interesting that these "refugees" from such conflict hotspots as Turkey choose to bypass many quiet, safe countries on their way to Germany, France, Sweden and the UK. The fact these countries don't have generous social welfare of course has nothing to do with these decisions.
What we're seeing in Europe is the inverse of having a policy like Australia's, so we're going to see a lot more people dying on the way there. What did refugees like my partner's grandparents receive when they got here in the 50s from Hungary? I'm sure they weren't handed the kind of lottery win that Western countries are handing out now while all still have native homeless crises of their own. Also, take another look at some of the pictures of these hordes of refugees, they're young, fighting age men and are being waved through without any checks and balances at all. Europe is in for some troubled times, I hope Abbott sticks to his guns. I would, I might add be more than happy to bring in some Syrian Christians or Yazidis who are being truly persecuted, if not outright facing genocide. If Europe want to throw out the welcome mat to all and sundry then that's on them. |
Indeed, the policy of successive Australian governments is looking very sound. Europe's crisis is only beginning, I think, and it will get far, far worse until policies like Australia's are applied and the distinction between asylum, temporary refugee status and migration is reinstated.
Where I disagree with you, Wokko, is that I don't think most of these peopel are attracted by social benefits. Most are modestly-skilled but hard-working people who see Europe as a land of peace and opportunity.
Sadly, Europe, marked by relative economic decline, poor government, insiders' labour markets, and fractious politics over Islam and much besides, is anything but a land of opportunity. I fear that it is the eventual disillusionment of these hopes that will bring serious future conflict.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Mugwump wrote: | | ^ The burden is being placed on Europe because Europe's failed politics are making it so, Jezza. Europe has abolished its border controls, tolerated illegal migration (look at the ongoing crisis in Calais for the last 10 years), and then last week Germany acted completely unilaterally and put out a sign to all would-be migrants and refugees that they will take anyone who arrives, placing intolerable pressure on Hungary, Greece and Turkey. It shoudl not be forgotten that the tragedy of that small boy and his brother emanated form a decision to leave Turkey, not Syria, while trying to get to Western Europe. I understand that family's decision ; but it does not mean that they shoudl have been encouraged to make it. |
I agree with all of that.
From what I've gathered, much of the Euroskepticism that has emerged in recent times across Europe includes such things as failed policies on immigration for example so there's definitely disillusionment in that part of the world despite the measures that have taken place in Germany and Austria recently.
I do worry about the economic and cultural repercussions that this will place on Europe though. Will European countries strive for multiculturalism or are they going to transition more into a policy of assimilation and integration? How will they create jobs for these refugees so they don't become an economic burden but actually contribute positively to the economy? Will their religion (largely Islam) start to clash with cultural norms of the nation states they reside in or will this not be a problem?
It's all well and good to take in refugees but I don't think such action should occur urgently until Europe is ready to address the issues above. Also while the number of refugees entering Europe from the Middle East are probably going to be by and large genuine, this whole crisis has the ability to be exploited by jihadist groups back in the Middle East. There has been a hint from groups like ISIS to smuggle in fighters/sympathisers under the disguise of refugees so extensive background checks and processing needs to be conducted here to identify if such activities are occurring.
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Last edited by Jezza on Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | The top five countries accommodating Syrian refugees are, in fact, from the Arab world - Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt, to be specific. Having said that, I agree with you that the gulf states are not pulling their weight right now.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-rich-arab-gulf-states-wont-welcome-syrian-refugees-2015-9?IR=T
As for Iran, well, as active sponsors of the Assad regime, it's little wonder that it wouldn't be high on the list as a refuge for Assad's victims. |
I don't think Iran would be hesitant to take in Alawites or Shia Muslims who reside in Syria and Iraq and are being persecuted by ISIS and otherSunni jihadist groups.
The Gulf states have been appalling in their lack of action considering this conflict is literally on their doorstep.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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So get the Refugees out so we can Nuke Syria as seems to the Place where ISIS is in the Most
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I am Da Man |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Where can I get the Refugees out so we can Nuke Syria as seems to the Place where ISIS is in the Most? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Jezza wrote: |
I do worry about the economic and cultural repercussions that this will place on Europe though. Will European countries strive for multiculturalism or are they going to transition more into a policy of assimilation and integration? How will they create jobs for these refugees so they don't become an economic burden but actually contribute positively to the economy? Will their religion (largely Islam) start to clash with cultural norms of the nation states they reside in or will this not be a problem?
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France seems to have run the experiment and processed the results, which do not look good. It has seen rising crime and inter-cultural tension, and notable acts of terrorism, leading to a serious Right-Wing backlash which makes the Front National a real contender. Each EU nation will react somewhat differently, but I expect the continent as a whole to suffer a major political crisis in the next 20 years with immigration in general and the management of Islam being major factors. We'll see.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^And Germany will go further ahead over that period, dealing with the problem and benefiting from it, while the defensive, petty rest stamp their feet, bottom lips quivering in colonial self-entitlement.
The nerve of people to see opportunity in change and make decisions accordingly really does set them apart unfairly. And I do fear you might be right; it could be another 20 years of denial and decline in the case of those struggling to make good of global change.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | So get the Refugees out so we can Nuke Syria as seems to the Place where ISIS is in the Most |
Sounds fair
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| We have a Federal Government and Party that has used Refugees as a Political Football for decades. This year the Opposition has joined them in turning back the boats policy as it's a vote winner. "You reap what you sow". |
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