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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Tannin wrote: | | Watch them pull their heads in once Biden takes over and (a) puts some professionals in charge and (b) restores some significant unity and trust and cooperation back into international relations. |
That's pretty much what I'm saying, but it is also reflected in the rhetoric.
Rhetoric matters insofar as it excites and arouses populist fist wavers, which in turn impacts politics. Extremists such as Trump excite extremists elsewhere, both fuelling pitchforked mobs, which in turn drag mainstream politics into their cesspit of hysteria and nationalism, which in turns destabilises the polity.
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Last edited by pietillidie on Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| pietillidie wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Xi is not just reflecting Trump, that's unhinged. |
How do you know? What's your basis for disagreeing? Have you been tracking the rhetoric?
Why did Chinese diplomatic tone turn puerile when Trump came along? Why did Twitter posts suddenly start mirroring Western social media rhetorical nonsense in (near) native English? Why does this rhetoric deviate so radically from traditional Chinese diplomatic rhetoric?
Donald Trump is the one who is unhinged. Xi is far more strategic. China now has a returning generation very well educated in Western rhetoric and PR. And Donald Trump is the perfect cover for bellicosity. |
My basis for disagreeing is that my opinion is as good as yours as your anti Trump bias invalidates any local knowledge you may have gained.
There's multiple reasons why Xi and China are behaving the way they are, you just picked the one you like the most.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Xi is not just reflecting Trump, that's unhinged. |
How do you know? What's your basis for disagreeing? Have you been tracking the rhetoric?
Why did Chinese diplomatic tone turn puerile when Trump came along? Why did Twitter posts suddenly start mirroring Western social media rhetorical nonsense in (near) native English? Why does this rhetoric deviate so radically from traditional Chinese diplomatic rhetoric?
Donald Trump is the one who is unhinged. Xi is far more strategic. China now has a returning generation very well educated in Western rhetoric and PR. And Donald Trump is the perfect cover for bellicosity. |
My basis for disagreeing is that my opinion is as good as yours as your anti Trump bias invalidates any local knowledge you may have gained.
There's multiple reasons why Xi and China are behaving the way they are, you just picked the one you like the most. |
Three things.
First, you can take or leave my intuition on the rhetoric, but keep it mind and see if you notice anything. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a beer.
Second, come on, Trump is a mentally ill moon unit - verifiably, obviously, plainly - no bias needed. And he's in the most powerful position in the world, which is a disaster. If this were apolitical you wouldn't be calling my views on the bloke 'anti' anything; it would just be common knowledge.
Third, do you honestly think I am arguing there is only one reason for anything? Putting that red herring aside, I have advanced an intuition that the rhetoric has changed, and it has changed such I think it's a conscious PR strategy. But I have also put forward an argument about the dangers of rhetorical escalation. Hysteria destabilises polities, and puerile extreme rhetoric begets hysteria and buttresses extremist politicians and their political support.
Tell me, why is my thesis about extremist rhetoric wrong, and how can you possibly argue that Trump is not driving rhetorical hysteria in relation to China?
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Firstly, China does what China wants, they act deliberately even when it seems over the top and hysterical, it's calculated.
Leave aside the physcological profiling of Trump, you could mount a successful argument that by his actions he has enabled the CCP, provided windows of opportunity for them but enabling isn't driving.
The CCP has their own agenda and they drive to that, Trump or not. If Biden becomes POTUS, they will no doubt modify their behaviour toward the USA, but it may or may not be better.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Well said, stui. In fact, I believe Biden in power would return us to the CCPs "quiet" expansion, which is good for China, pretty shite for everyone else.
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kill for collingwood! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Personally, I'd just be happy to see the US go away and mind its own business for a bit. There are plenty of other countries and blocs with leverage against China, and we don't need a new cold war to keep the world multipolar.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| roar wrote: | | Well said, stui. In fact, I believe Biden in power would return us to the CCPs "quiet" expansion, which is good for China, pretty shite for everyone else. |
What 'quiet' expansion? Are you saying we missed the rise of China somehow? Didn't notice all that economic growth, investment in other countries, and the BRI?
Did people also forget to tell you who was driving the natural resources boom in your own country, holding down inflation for two decades and supplying tourists and students? Were you expecting China's international influence to keep pace with that of Togo?
You talk as if there are only two international relations options here: sitting idly by or carrying on like a moon unit. Is that what FB told you?
No, there's a third option: serious leadership. It's a mix of pragmatism, firm counter measures, mutually-beneficial carrots, and diplomatic hard work.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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^ Pull your head in, you're raving like a lunatic.
Naive, rude and no-way-near clever enough to get away with it.
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kill for collingwood! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^So you're not fond of being challenged. Fair enough. Nonetheless, you said:
| roar wrote: | | In fact, I believe Biden in power would return us to the CCPs "quiet" expansion, which is good for China, pretty shite for everyone else. |
This is a doozy. Let's examine it:
1. The rise of China, the views of its leadership, its leadership ambitions, and openly-expressed and published policies have been part of a 'quiet' expansion, more like a conspiracy devised in the back room of a restaurant in Chinatown than the central economic story and international relations topic of the last two decades.
2. Captain Coronavirus the Mental, with his bellicose and cringeworthy outbursts that provide hardliners in China with dream PR, his suppression of global economic growth through trade war instability, his permanent domestic destabilising of the super power, his dangerous abuse of executive norms, his unsurpassed ability as a malignant narcissist to destroy relationships and offside partners, and his ragtag collection of talentless family members and cronies, backed by a fist-waving cult of backward weirdos and religious nutters, is the man to deal with a very, very complex world problem that involves balancing the needs of multiple nations and stakeholders at the highest levels worldwide.
This is the very same wounded, irrational reflex that gave the world Afghanistan and Iraq and the monstrous consequences of devotion to a completely incompetent dunderhead in George W.
When facing world complexities, let's chest beat hysterically, fail to analyse the problem in any depth, and find the most incompetent people imaginable with a horrendous track record to lead the way.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Hope Morrison is able to veto the agreement.
The fact that Andrews signed up to it is scandalous.
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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The fact that Albo even said he wouldn’t dream of signing up to it says everything, when the Federal leader of your party is running away, it must be a bad deal.
But good to see ScoMo taking on the constructive advice from the left, they keep complaining he isn’t taking over the states ever since he was blamed for fire services funding last summer. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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What's he signed up for, exactly? I've never been able to catch the specifics at a glance.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Chomsky on China wrote: | New Cold War between U.S. and China is a ‘disaster for the world’ – Noam Chomsky
Deteriorating relations between the United States and China have potentially disastrous consequences for the world when global cooperation is needed to fight threats such as COVID-19 and global warming, renowned intellectual Noam Chomsky said Friday in an FCC webinar.
The attempts by the United States to prevent China from developing were cruel and pointless, he said.
“If China develops, we all benefit,” Chomsky said. “If we’re going back to a Cold War between China and the United States, that’s a disaster for the world. This is a moment, more than ever, where we have to have international cooperation. The crises that we face are all international.”
Relations between China and the United States have deteriorated since U.S. President Donald Trump – whom he called “the most dangerous political leader in history” – took office, resulting in a trade war and retaliatory actions against journalists in both countries.
Chomsky, one of the most influential public intellectuals in the world, said China was “trying to reassert its traditional role as the dominant force in Asia”, and the United States “won’t tolerate it”. He then likened the situation to the Mafia.
“The fact is the world is being run very similar to the Mafia.. the Don doesn’t tolerate any interference from states that challenge it, or even states that get out of line,” Chomsky said.
Discussing a range of topics, the author of more than 100 books including Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration of Wealth & Power, addressed the political unrest that gripped Hong Kong in 2019 and said the only way to ease the pressure on Hong Kong to “undermine its democratic procedures, practices and opportunities” was a “reduction of international tensions” between China and the United States.
“It’s always worth remembering the old saying that when the elephants fight, the grass gets trampled. Hong Kong is the grass. If the elephants start fighting, Hong Kong is lost.”
“The Hong Kong protests were a major sign of optimism. They didn’t totally succeed but laid the seeds for future progress,” Chomsky added.
The webinar opened with Chomsky’s thoughts on the COVID-19 pandemic and the Trump Administration’s handling of it.
“The United States is basically a wreck,” he said, citing Trump’s dismantling of former President Barack Obama’s preparations against a global health emergency which he said left America “unprepared when the pandemic struck”.
Chomsky went on to warn of future coronavirus pandemics that, intensified by the impact of global warming and habitat destruction, would be even more lethal.
“It could be something like the Black Death,” he said.
Arizona, the state where Chomsky resides and where he is laureate professor in the Department of Linguistics at the University of Arizona, was “now vying for the international record for the highest number of cases per capita”, he said. He accused Trump of “flailing around desperately to find some scapegoat to cover up for the fact that he’s responsible for killing over a hundred thousand Americans”.
Referring to misinformation around the pandemic, he took aim at media organisations such as Fox News for “peddling” misleading messages playing down the seriousness of COVID-19. But Chomsky also lamented the Trump Administration’s rhetoric towards the media as enemies of the people.
“With the media now it’s very scary. When half of Republicans think the government should have the right to close down media it doesn’t like, then that’s dangerous,” he said. |
https://www.fcchk.org/new-cold-war-between-u-s-and-china-is-a-disaster-for-the-world-noam-chomsky/
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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