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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Tannin wrote: | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | How do you suggest that we engage with China in relation to the current tariffs being applied to Australian products, when they refuse to respond at all? |
We need to transition away from the China-facing economy. Yes, that means change and some hardship. But we are going to get both of those things anyway, much, much better to decide for ourselves (for example) that we will de-emphasise Chinese students as a cash cow for the "education" industry; that we will slow down on iron ore exports to China; that we will go full-steam-ahead on rare earth refining; that our agricultural focus will be redirected to export to many different places (not just bloody China every time) and sell much more to our domestic market.
As a nation, we need to kick the China habit. |
Agree 100% with this.
They have NZ running scared for exactly this reason. They are so dependant on China and they've seen what the bastards have tried to do here.
I'm not a fan of crayfish so I left that part out, even though I do think it's a tad irrational. Maybe buy some while it's cheap and remind them that if they get the export markets going again it would be smart to keep some cheap ones aside for home. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Australia's easiest chance to transition to a balanced economy was lost in the 00s when everyone clung like fools to the mining industry, pumping subsidies into greater dependency. Australia does absolutely nothing until it has to. That means everything it does is well after the horse has bolted.
The Chinese economy will persist long after whatever stage the present is, so a silly counter-reaction is just as dumb as having an imbalanced mining-led economy. Forget harping on about China like dummy-spitters who took the money in the good times, but did nothing to prepare for the present, including failing to give the entire country very, very basic 21st-century infrastructure such as reliable high-speed broadband.
Nope, the problem now is the same as it was then: economic imbalance led by bought-out politicians and the Gliberal-industry revolving door. It's a fraction of eff all to do with getting your knickers in a twist about China in a way that you failed to get your knickers in a twist about the political interference of mining companies, mining subsidies, the killing off of the mining windfall tax, green energy undermining even as prices dropped like a stone, environmental poisoning, climate change denial, decent broadband scuppering, dismissiveness of the tech industry as a cafe fad (now look at global market indices, FFS), and much more.
Balance the economy by starting here: Support a decent technology industry. Use your regional stability and reputation to attract more capital. Bolster strengths such as agricultural science, energy science, agricultural machinery manufacturing, alternative energy engineering, food technology, media and design, etc. Pump money into the strong sciences. Fund universities properly so they don't turn into educational vending machines. Grow the kahunas to collect taxes properly and set a windfall tax on mining to fund it.
Or, moan about China and imagine it away in magical wishes of mind while the world keeps turning.
The main problem is not kowtowing to China — that's particularly an annoyance to the egos of people who would rather be pushing Vanuatu around or joining with the US to invade peasants somewhere — but kowtowing to dim-witted domestic morons. You know, the ones everyone got their climate science from. China is and now always will be a major part of the world and regional economy, ups and downs and difficult phases notwithstanding. It is delusional to do anything but set smart and firm policy in relation to China, and to continue to work with regional partners, themselves massive forces, to nudge China in the right direction and make it accountable.
But none of that — none of it whatsoever — will matter if you keep listening to short-armed, chest-puffing thugs and dimwits in a science- and tech-driven world. Just wait for it: the same people who get everything wrong and have done for two decades will now cling pathetically to the China menace as further justification for impulsive reaction instead of responsible hard work.
Again and again. It's the yellow peril, the Muslims, the Indians, the Chinese, the boat people, the students, the foreign investors, the.... But never is it the actual problem: local, short-armed, big-mouthed, ignorant, easy-money chasing grifters and halfwits with a two-minute planning horizon. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Ahem .. who is this "you" in the otherwise to-the-point screed above? It certainly ain't me! _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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pietillidie wrote: | ^Australia's easiest chance to transition to a balanced economy was lost in the 00s when everyone clung like fools to the mining industry, pumping subsidies into greater dependency. Australia does absolutely nothing until it has to. That means everything it does is well after the horse has bolted.
The Chinese economy will persist long after whatever stage the present is, so a silly counter-reaction is just as dumb as having an imbalanced mining-led economy. Forget harping on about China like dummy-spitters who took the money in the good times, but did nothing to prepare for the present, including failing to give the entire country very, very basic 21st-century infrastructure such as reliable high-speed broadband.
Nope, the problem now is the same as it was then: economic imbalance led by bought-out politicians and the Gliberal-industry revolving door. It's a fraction of eff all to do with getting your knickers in a twist about China in a way that you failed to get your knickers in a twist about the political interference of mining companies, mining subsidies, the killing off of the mining windfall tax, green energy undermining even as prices dropped like a stone, environmental poisoning, climate change denial, decent broadband scuppering, dismissiveness of the tech industry as a cafe fad (now look at global market indices, FFS), and much more.
Balance the economy by starting here: Support a decent technology industry. Use your regional stability and reputation to attract more capital. Bolster strengths such as agricultural science, energy science, agricultural machinery manufacturing, alternative energy engineering, food technology, media and design, etc. Pump money into the strong sciences. Fund universities properly so they don't turn into educational vending machines. Grow the kahunas to collect taxes properly and set a windfall tax on mining to fund it.
Or, moan about China and imagine it away in magical wishes of mind while the world keeps turning.
The main problem is not kowtowing to China — that's particularly an annoyance to the egos of people who would rather be pushing Vanuatu around or joining with the US to invade peasants somewhere — but kowtowing to dim-witted domestic morons. You know, the ones everyone got their climate science from. China is and now always will be a major part of the world and regional economy, ups and downs and difficult phases notwithstanding. It is delusional to do anything but set smart and firm policy in relation to China, and to continue to work with regional partners, themselves massive forces, to nudge China in the right direction and make it accountable.
But none of that — none of it whatsoever — will matter if you keep listening to short-armed, chest-puffing thugs and dimwits in a science- and tech-driven world. Just wait for it: the same people who get everything wrong and have done for two decades will now cling pathetically to the China menace as further justification for impulsive reaction instead of responsible hard work.
Again and again. It's the yellow peril, the Muslims, the Indians, the Chinese, the boat people, the students, the foreign investors, the.... But never is it the actual problem: local, short-armed, big-mouthed, ignorant, easy-money chasing grifters and halfwits with a two-minute planning horizon. |
Correct weight and great post PTID. Nail hit head. The Mad Misogynistic Monk Abbott has a lot to answer for when Australia could have been leading the world in clean energy, renewables and a multi-faceted economy. _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Pies4shaw wrote: | https://twitter.com/ScottyFromMktg/status/1387537162611007489 |
😂😂 _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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pietillidie wrote: | ^Australia's easiest chance to transition to a balanced economy was lost in the 00s when everyone clung like fools to the mining industry, pumping subsidies into greater dependency. Australia does absolutely nothing until it has to. That means everything it does is well after the horse has bolted.
The Chinese economy will persist long after whatever stage the present is, so a silly counter-reaction is just as dumb as having an imbalanced mining-led economy. Forget harping on about China like dummy-spitters who took the money in the good times, but did nothing to prepare for the present, including failing to give the entire country very, very basic 21st-century infrastructure such as reliable high-speed broadband.
Nope, the problem now is the same as it was then: economic imbalance led by bought-out politicians and the Gliberal-industry revolving door. It's a fraction of eff all to do with getting your knickers in a twist about China in a way that you failed to get your knickers in a twist about the political interference of mining companies, mining subsidies, the killing off of the mining windfall tax, green energy undermining even as prices dropped like a stone, environmental poisoning, climate change denial, decent broadband scuppering, dismissiveness of the tech industry as a cafe fad (now look at global market indices, FFS), and much more.
Balance the economy by starting here: Support a decent technology industry. Use your regional stability and reputation to attract more capital. Bolster strengths such as agricultural science, energy science, agricultural machinery manufacturing, alternative energy engineering, food technology, media and design, etc. Pump money into the strong sciences. Fund universities properly so they don't turn into educational vending machines. Grow the kahunas to collect taxes properly and set a windfall tax on mining to fund it.
Or, moan about China and imagine it away in magical wishes of mind while the world keeps turning.
The main problem is not kowtowing to China — that's particularly an annoyance to the egos of people who would rather be pushing Vanuatu around or joining with the US to invade peasants somewhere — but kowtowing to dim-witted domestic morons. You know, the ones everyone got their climate science from. China is and now always will be a major part of the world and regional economy, ups and downs and difficult phases notwithstanding. It is delusional to do anything but set smart and firm policy in relation to China, and to continue to work with regional partners, themselves massive forces, to nudge China in the right direction and make it accountable.
But none of that — none of it whatsoever — will matter if you keep listening to short-armed, chest-puffing thugs and dimwits in a science- and tech-driven world. Just wait for it: the same people who get everything wrong and have done for two decades will now cling pathetically to the China menace as further justification for impulsive reaction instead of responsible hard work.
Again and again. It's the yellow peril, the Muslims, the Indians, the Chinese, the boat people, the students, the foreign investors, the.... But never is it the actual problem: local, short-armed, big-mouthed, ignorant, easy-money chasing grifters and halfwits with a two-minute planning horizon. |
So is that a Yes or No? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^It's been a yes from me for 20 years.
The benefits accompanying two decades of Asian growth have been pi$$ed down the drain by Glib-led short-termist hacks and cons who need to be held accountable and removed from decision-making positions for good. Once the mining dollars started rolling in, no one bothered to do a damn thing at any serious scale in both domestic economic policy and regional international relations.
Mining money and a lazy clinging to US coat tails in Asia (including following two completely deranged Republican administrations into utter chaos and absurdity) kept social media busy while the Glibs did nothing but wreck any policy aimed at broadening domestic economic opportunity, from crippling the NBN and mining windfall tax, to crippling green energy technology and climate-driven capital, and talking down science and technology at every point and turn.
China hysteria is their latest PR front for retaining decision-making authority after two decades of fecklessness and grubby mutual palm greasing. Make no mistake; the more you focus on China hysteria, the more you support the very same grubby creeps who will never in a million years do anything positive for the Australian economy. Never have done, therefore never ever will do. Next, they'll jump from cheap mining dollars and killing off green energy, to setting themselves up as tech and alternative energy tollgates. They're corrupt parasites who don't know what a proper competitive economy looks like; they're government contract and corporate handout grifters by trade.
The Glibs are grubby rock apes; the ALP are beige nobodies stuck in the post-Marxian 1970s; the electorate has been groomed by them into becoming short-term handout grabbers, hysterical scapegoaters, Facebook conspiracy nutters, and reality TV/shock jock/Instagram halfwit worshippers. Don't expect any help from people with those credentials. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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pietillidie wrote: | ^Australia's easiest chance to transition to a balanced economy was lost in the 00s when everyone clung like fools to the mining industry, pumping subsidies into greater dependency. Australia does absolutely nothing until it has to. That means everything it does is well after the horse has bolted.
The Chinese economy will persist long after whatever stage the present is, so a silly counter-reaction is just as dumb as having an imbalanced mining-led economy. Forget harping on about China like dummy-spitters who took the money in the good times, but did nothing to prepare for the present, including failing to give the entire country very, very basic 21st-century infrastructure such as reliable high-speed broadband.
Nope, the problem now is the same as it was then: economic imbalance led by bought-out politicians and the Gliberal-industry revolving door. It's a fraction of eff all to do with getting your knickers in a twist about China in a way that you failed to get your knickers in a twist about the political interference of mining companies, mining subsidies, the killing off of the mining windfall tax, green energy undermining even as prices dropped like a stone, environmental poisoning, climate change denial, decent broadband scuppering, dismissiveness of the tech industry as a cafe fad (now look at global market indices, FFS), and much more.
Balance the economy by starting here: Support a decent technology industry. Use your regional stability and reputation to attract more capital. Bolster strengths such as agricultural science, energy science, agricultural machinery manufacturing, alternative energy engineering, food technology, media and design, etc. Pump money into the strong sciences. Fund universities properly so they don't turn into educational vending machines. Grow the kahunas to collect taxes properly and set a windfall tax on mining to fund it.
Or, moan about China and imagine it away in magical wishes of mind while the world keeps turning.
The main problem is not kowtowing to China — that's particularly an annoyance to the egos of people who would rather be pushing Vanuatu around or joining with the US to invade peasants somewhere — but kowtowing to dim-witted domestic morons. You know, the ones everyone got their climate science from. China is and now always will be a major part of the world and regional economy, ups and downs and difficult phases notwithstanding. It is delusional to do anything but set smart and firm policy in relation to China, and to continue to work with regional partners, themselves massive forces, to nudge China in the right direction and make it accountable.
But none of that — none of it whatsoever — will matter if you keep listening to short-armed, chest-puffing thugs and dimwits in a science- and tech-driven world. Just wait for it: the same people who get everything wrong and have done for two decades will now cling pathetically to the China menace as further justification for impulsive reaction instead of responsible hard work.
Again and again. It's the yellow peril, the Muslims, the Indians, the Chinese, the boat people, the students, the foreign investors, the.... But never is it the actual problem: local, short-armed, big-mouthed, ignorant, easy-money chasing grifters and halfwits with a two-minute planning horizon. |
Can you enlighten us on what "smart and firm policy in relation to China"
means? If you were in charge here, in the real world, what would you actually do? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Tannin wrote: | Ahem .. who is this "you" in the otherwise to-the-point screed above? It certainly ain't me! |
I assume it's me, as it's easier and likely more fun to write a piece like that than actually address China's current behaviour.
That's fine, a few years ago I had little visibility of some of this stuff that China was doing, now I do.
Their agenda is now out in the open and I'm all for saying Far Kew to them. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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stui magpie wrote: | Tannin wrote: | Ahem .. who is this "you" in the otherwise to-the-point screed above? It certainly ain't me! |
I assume it's me, as it's easier and likely more fun to write a piece like that than actually address China's current behaviour.
That's fine, a few years ago I had little visibility of some of this stuff that China was doing, now I do.
Their agenda is now out in the open and I'm all for saying Far Kew to them. |
Little visibility? So, despite clearly being on target to become the largest economy on the planet for decades now, and despite being the central topic of politics, business, economics and international relations for the last 30 years, the rise of China somehow crept up on you? Or did you just assume it would somehow be a passive rule taker, like the Solomon Islands, just scaled massively?
People always and ever grab the easiest advantage for themselves they can as a first impulse. That leads them into doing really dumb things, like supporting two disastrous nutcase US Republican regimes (Australia), perpetuating delusional notions of destiny and superiority (US and China), lashing out in blind tantrum at no longer being able to dominate at whim (UK and US), clinging to authoritarianism (China; Russia; Trumpist US), grabbing easy money at long-term expense (Australia the US and the UK), or failing to put energy into creating a balanced economy (Australia and Japan, though in different ways).
The job for sane people with the fortune of time, wealth and health is to work out the best mutually beneficial position, and to convince everyone else to not take the easy, short-term, reactionary, ill-disciplined path. That's actual leadership.
But imagine spending 20 years doing nothing in domestic and regional economic development — 1/20th of eff all for 20 years — and then blaming everyone else. That's not the job of leadership. The job is to get rid of those prodigal leaders who wasted the bounty, and now even hint at making excuses.
Do you think those bereft hacks who have done nothing for 20 years have any chance of taking advantage of the Biden shift before the nutcase half of America starts wrecking things again?
Pin the tail on the right donkey here: the Grifting Glibs, the Loser ALP, and a lazy populous trained to worship big-mouthed dunces.
Then, find leaders who can work the global maths: Do you think that Japan, South Korea, India, SEA, the US, Europe and whoever else don't have enough mass to negotiate to mutual advantage here? It's not rocket science; just will and effort. China is the one clearly hemmed in, forced to use asymmetrical leverage like the Soviets before it. But, geographically and historically China has much greater possibility for reform over time because it's exposed to liberal and capitalist forces in a way the Soviets never were.
Irritation or even concern and not being able to get everything we want, now, are not some great oppression; they're part of everyday life. There are boundless opportunities for Australia to move forward on many fronts, unless of course the aim is to harp on in indignation and affront about China, wasting another two decades. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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I don’t buy into the ‘no force can stop China’ mantra; it essentially comes from Xi who must not blamed in one of his speeches and now often repeated by journalists and pundits alike as if they are speaking some kind of profound incontrovertible truth.
I don’t think China will collapse in the same way as the Soviet Union did; but like all communist / authoritarian regimes eventually they reach a point where they can no longer afford to spend the ever increasing amount of resources on regime preservation. The more criticism it gets the more it has to expend on its own survival.
This is an Interesting discussion on China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV7PuqlMOzI
Whatever happens next is anyone’s guess but the further you have your interests away from China the better; glad I did it 18 years ago. _________________ Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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pietillidie wrote: | stui magpie wrote: | Tannin wrote: | Ahem .. who is this "you" in the otherwise to-the-point screed above? It certainly ain't me! |
I assume it's me, as it's easier and likely more fun to write a piece like that than actually address China's current behaviour.
That's fine, a few years ago I had little visibility of some of this stuff that China was doing, now I do.
Their agenda is now out in the open and I'm all for saying Far Kew to them. |
Little visibility? So, despite clearly being on target to become the largest economy on the planet for decades now, and despite being the central topic of politics, business, economics and international relations for the last 30 years, the rise of China somehow crept up on you? Or did you just assume it would somehow be a passive rule taker, like the Solomon Islands, just scaled massively?
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Look, if you're going to keep writing rubbish belting me rather than actually engaging on how China is behaving, that's fine. I'll just suggest that you give yourself a cactus suppository while hitting yourself over the head with a brick and ignore you.
If, on the other hand, you consider how we seem on the path to war, not just sabre rattling and maybe even answer 5FTWOD when he asked how you would deal with China from a diplomatic perspective, I'm happy to discuss things. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^There's nothing new to add: the solution is as it's always been, i.e., a new standards-based trade agreement with the sum of forces greater than China. There's nothing else to discuss on the matter. You're not even in the game in its absence, let alone war games.
Biden is the best chance to do this since the TPP, but this opportunity is even better because the TPP had other nasties in it that can be eliminated, and we are that bit wiser now. Biden's even happy to look at proper tax collection from digital multinationals, so you can deal with the tax problem at the same time, which underlies all manner of domestic issues.
The fact you even think you're 'on the path to war' suggests you're dragging yourself down to the level of Aussie shock jock nonsense when you're far smarter than that. You deserve to get belted for it because you refuse to step up, siding with the short-termists on issue after issue going back years. It's as if you fear being called a 'latte sipper' and think the only other option is to consign yourself to Trumpist-level company.
The EU and UK are aligning with the US on this already. I've noticed it just quietly in the news for a few weeks now. Have you been following South Korea, Japan and India on this? They're aligning as expected. (Now would be a good time to build rather than burn bridges with India, but it would take actual leadership beyond a news cycle to do so).
War is inevitable only in the dumbest sense of inevitability, i.e., it's the easiest and most instantly gratifying idea for people to resign themselves to, much like climate change denial or some new world order conspiracy theory. Far more exciting than the long-term business of international development and relations. But we're not always at war, contrary to some people's deep desire for that to be the case. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Goodthanks, bye, _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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