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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: Some more news about Collingwood - Tanking | |
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i know the subject of tanking and whether collingwood should tank has been done to death, but i wanted to share with you all this development in the NBA because it shows that tanking is not something you can EVER stop unless you create a system that discourages it.
In the NBA as most peoiple know, they have a lottery for everyone that doesnt make the playoffs. All 15 of those teams have a chance to get the top 3 picks (usually thats where the franchise changing player will be drafted) and then you get rankec according to where you finish (i would say the AFL might consider a lottery for the top 10 and everyone outside the 8 would get a chance).
In the NBA, its currently a weighted lottery - so the worst team gets a 25% chance, second last a 20% chance, etc., down to 15th who has about a 0.1% chance of winning.
Even with this weighted system the NBA has been unable to stop tanking!!!
See below whivch shows that they are considering going to an equal weighting system to lessen the liklihood of the tank!.
http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/16/nba-draft-lottery-structure-change _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Location: Benalla
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It's a hard one that's for sure, I think we need some kind of lottery between the bottom 4, but that's where it should end, I don't think anyone would tank for a 5th pick, but nothing would surprise me now days.
Getting rid of the national champs would make things harder for tankers, really, who cares about the champs anyway? AFL scouts want to see players perform under structure, they don't get that with the Champs.
I also think it's a bit much to expect kids to travel the country whilst at school, for many of them anyway.
Loved how you managed to work us into the equation, WTF does this have to do with us? _________________ Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: | |
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Defender wrote: | It's a hard one that's for sure, I think we need some kind of lottery between the bottom 4, but that's where it should end, I don't think anyone would tank for a 5th pick, but nothing would surprise me now days.
Getting rid of the national champs would make things harder for tankers, really, who cares about the champs anyway? AFL scouts want to see players perform under structure, they don't get that with the Champs.
I also think it's a bit much to expect kids to travel the country whilst at school, for many of them anyway.
Loved how you managed to work us into the equation, WTF does this have to do with us? |
you have to drop the word collingwood in the thread these days or it gets banished to some other board that literally no one reads......
PS: the pies traded up from 10 to 6 to get scharenberg so there is clearly value there. Its just a question as you so as to whether a team would go to all that trouble to get from say 9 to 5. Probably depends on the makeup of the draft class. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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A team that is genuinely crap may never improve if they do poorly in the ballot. _________________ How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
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neil
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Location: Queensland
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Does anyone really trust the AFL to run a lottery?
After Collingwood get shit picks ten years in a row will the penny drop?
Dont think we will get shafted think of the old zoning system and how two teams won about 13 premierships in a 20 year period.
Hint neither team was Collingwood _________________ Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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The Seedsmeister wrote: | A team that is genuinely crap may never improve if they do poorly in the ballot. |
As free agency continues to expand, they will have other options. i wonder how we really feel about the fact that we got scharenberg vs billings _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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perthmagpie
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Location: Yarrawonga
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neil wrote: | Does anyone really trust the AFL to run a lottery?
After Collingwood get shit picks ten years in a row will the penny drop?
Dont think we will get shafted think of the old zoning system and how two teams won about 13 premierships in a 20 year period.
Hint neither team was Collingwood |
I agree. That zoning system that was supposed be reviewed by the VFL every two years. Funny how a small bunch of clubs who got the prime zones decided they never wanted those reviews or any changes to the zones: Hawthorn, Carlton etc. Yep Collingwood can keep the Western Border league which had half of the population never wanting to play VFL and sent their best talent to the SANFL. We were completely dudded with our country zone. It was close to useless for years. _________________ Magpies love pies(Lol) |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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The system is there to be used. Use it. 10th Please. |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Location: the great southern land
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Yeah,but if we come tenth that means that we only get a slightly higher second round pick because we've already commited to taking Darcy Moore as our first round pick.So where's the advantage in that? |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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The NBA lottery is rigged as rigged can be. I prefer a transparent system that can be gamed to a shadowy 'game' that can be rigged. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Bendigo
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doriswilgus wrote: | Yeah,but if we come tenth that means that we only get a slightly higher second round pick because we've already commited to taking Darcy Moore as our first round pick.So where's the advantage in that? |
Finish low enough and it increases the chances that teams below us won't bid for Moore in the father-son bidding process meaning we could get him for a 2nd round pick. Means we could effectively get 2x very high draft picks... just saying! |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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Do we need to stop "tanking"?
Deliberately losing games, sure. But crap teams sending injured players off for surgery early or discarding older players and playing kids, what's wrong with it? All they're doing is preparing for next year, and if their current season is done, why should we be stopping them? It's what they need to do to get better. Continuing to play guys who won't be there next year while their younger players, who are their future, are wallowing in the reserves just holds them back further.
To do any of the above you already need to be crap. So, it just means that the crap teams are being compensated with early picks. That's exactly how the draft is meant to work. It's not as if good teams are deliberately dropping down the ladder.
The only problem with "tanking" is that you may get some uncompetitive games, not such a big problem, really, and not a guaranteed one.
And it's less of a problem in the AFL than most sports (certainly the NBA, where one player can transform a team). With so many players on the field, one doesn't make all of the difference. Tanking was more of a problem when we were giving away an extra pick, but now it's really not an issue. _________________ Well done boys!
Last edited by AN_Inkling on Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003 Location: Yugoslavia
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never understood the worry about tanking.
success comes with smart recruiting, list management, development, coaching and culture
You dont need high draft picks to be successful. look recently at GEE, HAW, SYD, FRE. have a looks at teams who bottomed out in last 10yrs ie CAR, MEL, RICH, how are they travelling?
NBA is a lot different, as acquiring young talent carries more weight due to team size and potential to trade high picks for elite players. Even so, look at the top teams in the NBA - SAS, MIA, IND, DAL, HOU. These teams get assembled by good front offices.
Every NBA team gets pieces. Its all about how they are managed.
Anyway, If AFL teams tank to move up a few spots in the draft, of course its not perfectly fair but I don't see it as a big deal. |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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Woods Of Ypres wrote: | never understood the worry about tanking.
success comes with smart recruiting, list management, development, coaching and culture
You dont need high draft picks to be successful. look recently at GEE, HAW, SYD, FRE. have a looks at teams who bottomed out in last 10yrs ie CAR, MEL, RICH, how are they travelling?
NBA is a lot different, as acquiring young talent carries more weight due to team size and potential to trade high picks for elite players. Even so, look at the top teams in the NBA - SAS, MIA, IND, DAL, HOU. These teams get assembled by good front offices.
Every NBA team gets pieces. Its all about how they are managed.
Anyway, If AFL teams tank to move up a few spots in the draft, of course its not perfectly fair but I don't see it as a big deal. |
Don't have to tell Wolves fans that |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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Culprit wrote: | The system is there to be used. Use it. 10th Please. |
I honestly think we'll finish tenth without even trying to tank. Have a look at our remaining games. If we win two of them we'll be lucky. _________________ Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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