Disposal
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: Disposal |  |
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| Having the power to execute basic skills such as hanballing and kicking are fundamental to any side's chances of winning a game, yet in recent times I've noticed a decline in these skills and often wonder why? It's not just the Pies - it's all teams. Are they not important anymore? Are 'structures' and 'zoning' more important or is the game so manic and fast that no one has the time to stop and think about where they're placing their kick and handball. Our delivery into the forward line leaves a lot to be desired at times and obviously affects our chances of being able to score effectively. I notice that it's usually the same players as well who are the culprits: sidebottom (high up and under kicks that hang in the air for far too long), blair (poor execution in front of goal), adams (throws the ball on the boot and hopes for the best), swan (see adams, but sometimes hits the target). Is it bad technique, pressure or just plain carelessness? I'm sorry but there's no excuse for missing a player on the lead when you have acres of space yourself to compose and perfect the kick. I've been giving Cloke a lot of slack but when you seen some of the delivery to him - no wonder he can't get near the ball. |
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jatsad
Joined: 29 May 2010
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Could not agree more.
If the pies ever get their field kicking skills right, where they kick a pass to a leading player's chest instead of 20 metres in the air, or completely over the player's head, then lookout.
There is no doubt we are amongst the worst kicking teams in the competition.
Which is surprising seeing they have access to two of the greatest exponents of kicking the game has seen - Nathan Buckley and Peter Daicos.
Get those skills right and there will be no stopping us.
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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Heard that the hawthorn team as a whole had a disposal efficiency over 80% and that was playing in terrible conditions.
It's been a clear focus for that side for a number of years and didn't happen over night.
All teams are a fair way off them in this regard.
Cats however pressured the ball carrier into mistakes. Hard to do for a whole game especially against the hawkes.
That's the sort if team footy we need consistently and with kids we are gonna have our ups and downs. So far though they all look bought in.
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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Much of it is mental and perceptions of pressure. That's why Goldsack has been important. We get plenty of turnovers.
Guys like Pendlebury and Dwyer are very good with their poise and ability to choose the right options.
Others are more harried and miss the target accordingly. Kennedy& Adams come to mind.
We have tried to add some precise kicks. Broomhead, Young (doesn't always work), Armstrong even Jordan Russell in an effort to improve our general disposal efficiency.
Still a work in progress. It's one of the major reasons I like Kyle Martin and perhaps Karnezis also fits the bill when it comes to set shot kicking. Actually Beams at the moment is finishing off at goal well. Makes a huge difference if you can convert. We'd have won by 10 goals on Friday had we kicked straight. Scorebaord pressure is the best kind of pressure.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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mackasmatt
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Location: Perth, WA
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Its not a "special teams" sport, and the game is getting faster so players are more stuffed when they get a chance to use it. It's also all about everyone being a defender and scoring on the rebound.
Its disappointing to me that the game has almost become soccer style defensive with rugby style overlap offense.
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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I don't think skills have declined at all. I think they're better than ever.
The game is far more fluid and less static than it was years ago. So executing passes into the forward line is far more difficult. It used to be you could just bomb the ball forward and hit a one on one most times. Add to that the much greater running requirements and most crucially the far greater defensive pressure and there's no surprise that we're not seeing lace out passes every time.
And you mention Hawthorn? That's a good example. Yes, they were efficient against the Saints, who were terrible and barely pressured them at all. Look up their game against the Cats. They're efficiency in that game was quite poor. Look at our stats, we are, I think, best in the league at forcing turnovers. Is that because teams kick bad against us? No, it's because we pressure them.
And our skills? I don't think they're poor at all. We've had a period of adjustment where we've struggled for fluency which has meant poor ball movement. That is on the way to improving though, and you'll see much better skills as the season goes on. We're already quite a bit better than last year.
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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Some of the players in any teams are going to have less skills than others - but offer more in other areas - e.g getting the ball or tackling etc - that's why I enjoy aussie rules - such a great diversity of players/skills 
Overall I agree with AN-Inkling and think the skills are good/better than ever generally with the speed and the pressure in games forcing errors. The best teams will be able to play effectively when the pressure is on!
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I don't think skills have declined at all. I think they're better than ever.
The game is far more fluid and less static than it was years ago. So executing passes into the forward line is far more difficult. It used to be you could just bomb the ball forward and hit a one on one most times. Add to that the much greater running requirements and most crucially the far greater defensive pressure and there's no surprise that we're not seeing lace out passes every time.
And you mention Hawthorn? That's a good example. Yes, they were efficient against the Saints, who were terrible and barely pressured them at all. Look up their game against the Cats. They're efficiency in that game was quite poor. Look at our stats, we are, I think, best in the league at forcing turnovers. Is that because teams kick bad against us? No, it's because we pressure them.
And our skills? I don't think they're poor at all. We've had a period of adjustment where we've struggled for fluency which has meant poor ball movement. That is on the way to improving though, and you'll see much better skills as the season goes on. We're already quite a bit better than last year. |
I do think that kicking for goal skills have not improved, although the distance from which goals are kicked are longer.
Give me Lockett and Dunstall as set shots over today's best forwards - Cloke, Franklin, Riewoldt, Roughead, but these two are the top of the goal kicking after all.
Still, almost every player can kick 'Daicos-like' dribbling goals today, rather than being the rare exception as it was.
As for Hawthorn, you can select the Cats game if you like, but almost every other week they just blitz. Their display against the Saints in the wet was awesome and the game against Freo their skills in the first half were the best I can recall ever being displayed as a collective by any football team I have watched. They also kicked 23 goals against the Suns in Qld - and that is a 5-2 team at present.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I don't think skills have declined at all. I think they're better than ever.
The game is far more fluid and less static than it was years ago. So executing passes into the forward line is far more difficult. It used to be you could just bomb the ball forward and hit a one on one most times. Add to that the much greater running requirements and most crucially the far greater defensive pressure and there's no surprise that we're not seeing lace out passes every time.
And you mention Hawthorn? That's a good example. Yes, they were efficient against the Saints, who were terrible and barely pressured them at all. Look up their game against the Cats. They're efficiency in that game was quite poor. Look at our stats, we are, I think, best in the league at forcing turnovers. Is that because teams kick bad against us? No, it's because we pressure them.
And our skills? I don't think they're poor at all. We've had a period of adjustment where we've struggled for fluency which has meant poor ball movement. That is on the way to improving though, and you'll see much better skills as the season goes on. We're already quite a bit better than last year. |
quick ball movement is the key; get the ball moving at any cost. this is why i like sinclair because he gains metres even though it often does not look clean.
referred pressure has something to do with the poor disposal too. carlton and essendon were made to look ordinary in our last two outings.
terry wallace made an interesting observation last night about how the game is very much like hockey particularly in the way transition takes place. i have not watched a game of hockey in recent times but did play many moons ago and reckon he has a point.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Albert Parker wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | I don't think skills have declined at all. I think they're better than ever.
The game is far more fluid and less static than it was years ago. So executing passes into the forward line is far more difficult. It used to be you could just bomb the ball forward and hit a one on one most times. Add to that the much greater running requirements and most crucially the far greater defensive pressure and there's no surprise that we're not seeing lace out passes every time.
And you mention Hawthorn? That's a good example. Yes, they were efficient against the Saints, who were terrible and barely pressured them at all. Look up their game against the Cats. They're efficiency in that game was quite poor. Look at our stats, we are, I think, best in the league at forcing turnovers. Is that because teams kick bad against us? No, it's because we pressure them.
And our skills? I don't think they're poor at all. We've had a period of adjustment where we've struggled for fluency which has meant poor ball movement. That is on the way to improving though, and you'll see much better skills as the season goes on. We're already quite a bit better than last year. |
I do think that kicking for goal skills have not improved, although the distance from which goals are kicked are longer.
Give me Lockett and Dunstall as set shots over today's best forwards - Cloke, Franklin, Riewoldt, Roughead, but these two are the top of the goal kicking after all.
Still, almost every player can kick 'Daicos-like' dribbling goals today, rather than being the rare exception as it was.
As for Hawthorn, you can select the Cats game if you like, but almost every other week they just blitz. Their display against the Saints in the wet was awesome and the game against Freo their skills in the first half were the best I can recall ever being displayed as a collective by any football team I have watched. They also kicked 23 goals against the Suns in Qld - and that is a 5-2 team at present. |
I agree that, overall, set shots seem not to have improved. There's a couple of obvious reasons I see for this:
1) full forwards now have to be athletes just like all other players. They don't just stand there waiting for the ball to come down, mark it and kick the goal. This means two things: they have more to prepare for than just goal kicking and you can't only draft players who can mark and kick (we could have Jack Anthony at full forward, but prefer Cloke who can do more than just kick). Factor in the greater level of fatigue due to much more required running and it's not all that surprising that we haven't advanced.
2) this one may be a little more contentious, but I think the greater height of our tall forwards also contributes to some poor kicking. Taller players, in general, have almost always been worse kicks. It's just that previously most players over 195cm were rucks. This increase in height has selected out of the game the mediums who are great kicks (again, see Jack Anthony as an example). I definitely think players of this height (195cm plus) are much more skilled than ever. So, maybe the quality kicks are still there, they just can't get into the league because they'd not be able to compete against the giants  .
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Well done boys! |
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Brown26
Joined: 14 Sep 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Thank you AN-Inkling! I KNEW there was a reason I didn't make AFL level
- Ben |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| Albert Parker wrote: |
As for Hawthorn, you can select the Cats game if you like, but almost every other week they just blitz. Their display against the Saints in the wet was awesome and the game against Freo their skills in the first half were the best I can recall ever being displayed as a collective by any football team I have watched. They also kicked 23 goals against the Suns in Qld - and that is a 5-2 team at present. |
They blitz because they work their ass off...everyone of them, "the whole team are fantastic kicks" tag is a media driven myth, their run and system allows them to free up numbers = less pressure = better execution of skills.
The reason Geelong beat them often isn't because of a stupid curse, it's because man for man they have better footballers and they don't get sucked into playing Hawthorns game.
They go to water under heat, every team in the comp does!
Its why I never understood us going away from the press against them. |
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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: Re: Disposal | |
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| WarrenerraW wrote: | | Having the power to execute basic skills such as hanballing and kicking are fundamental to any side's chances of winning a game, yet in recent times I've noticed a decline in these skills and often wonder why? It's not just the Pies - it's all teams. |
You're correct of course, but the Pies are the current worst users of the ball all over the field, not just in front of goal. We currently rank 18th for disposal efficiency. That's mighty bad and it must be addressed now.
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After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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