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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | ok guys, anti fraser comments go here! lets not have another political no holds bars, slaughter house, shit fest |
OK, A musical tribute to big Mal, from back when he was PM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arlz53X6Ge0
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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The full quote is...
"Life wasn't meant to be easy, but take courage child, for it can be delightful".
Rest in Peace Bernard Shaw & Big Mal! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I suppose some of you will have seen this (if not, welcome to my Facebook newsfeed):
https://www.newsweek.com/amid-tributes-sean-connerys-views-slapping-women-have-been-largely-overlooked-1543819
It’s all become kind of predictable, hasn’t it? It’s not that I have a problem with this stuff being brought up after a celebrity dies; it’s in the public domain and shouldn’t be suppressed. My issue is that both sides of this whiplash from rapturous tributes to bringing up indiscretions are totally facile. Most people paying tribute to Connery only think of him as a great actor (and if they think this translates to him being a great guy in general, well I guess that’s part of the delusion of heroism) whose on-screen work they feel nostalgia/affection for. But then these social media scolds come along to tell you "um, actually, he was a bad guy and you shouldn’t celebrate him" based on a couple of things he said or did. And then you get backlash against that from fans who think he’s being disrespected. It’s absurd. Nobody on either side of that actually knows anything about this guy. But it seems sometimes that many people can only think in terms of heroes or villains. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ And then you repeat it.
Sigh.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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As I said, I have no problem with people doing so. Like it or not, it's part of his legacy. My interest lies more in the gulf between the dichotomies of idolisation and reflexive "cancellation" that guys like this seem to exist exclusively within.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Legacy. Judging someone in the present, using present day values, on behaviour (in this case views held) that occurred in the past.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I guess that's a fair definition of what "legacy" means. I'm not so sure that what he said and did was exactly in keeping with the values of the day, but I don't think that consideration particularly matters either way.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | ^ And then you repeat it.
Sigh. |
i saw his name last on the thread and came in knowing that comment would be there, i kid you not, ive heard it too, i doubt many people in life, especially those in the public eye, those with high achievements on their field, die without someone having a nasty comment, its the nature of the human beast, Tall poppy syndrome is not an aussie thang! for what is worth ive seen worse stories, but dont feel the need to share something that may or may not be true.
| David wrote: | | As I said, I have no problem with people doing so. Like it or not, it's part of his legacy. My interest lies more in the gulf between the dichotomies of idolisation and reflexive "cancellation" that guys like this seem to exist exclusively within. |
clearly, i have about 5 pages worth for when you beloved Woody finally kicks the bucket! or that french rapist guy! you will need to start a new "the place to say shit things about dead people who can no longer defend themselves!" thread!
Maybe the title needs to say something like RIP to his acting. or maybe just dont be an asshole! and yes i know i did it once! everyone has an asshole!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | ^ And then you repeat it.
Sigh. |
i saw his name last on the thread and came in knowing that comment would be there, i kid you not, ive heard it too, i doubt many people in life, especially those in the public eye, those with high achievements on their field, die without someone having a nasty comment, its the nature of the human beast, Tall poppy syndrome is not an aussie thang! for what is worth ive seen worse stories, but dont feel the need to share something that may or may not be true.
| David wrote: | | As I said, I have no problem with people doing so. Like it or not, it's part of his legacy. My interest lies more in the gulf between the dichotomies of idolisation and reflexive "cancellation" that guys like this seem to exist exclusively within. |
clearly, i have about 5 pages worth for when you beloved Woody finally kicks the bucket! or that french rapist guy! you will need to start a new "the place to say shit things about dead people who can no longer defend themselves!" thread!
Maybe the title needs to say something like RIP to his acting. or maybe just dont be an asshole! and yes i know i did it once! everyone has an asshole! |
I'm not quite sure I'd describe Woody Allen as "my beloved", and if "that french rapist guy" is Roman Polanski (he's actually Polish), then it might surprise you to know that I've never been a huge fan of his work. But I guess that's beside the point you're trying to make, which is that a thread about a celebrity's death should only be for tributes, not for any mention of anything that might tar their legacy. Sorry, but I'm not sure I can get on board with that. And I think you know as well as I do that, when Allen and Polanski die, nowhere on the internet will be safe from people taking potshots at them.
Of course people can talk about their fond memories of Connery as an actor if they want – and several have, and can continue to do so here – but death marks the end of life, not necessarily the end of a career (in Connery's case, his acting career ended almost two decades ago). So if we're interested at all in his legacy as a person, not just as an actor, I think the RogerEbert.com article I posted above is a perfectly legitimate – and, I think, respectful – response to his death, and certainly tells us more than the rose-coloured adulation and the personal scandal trawling alike.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Personally I don't need to wait till Woody or Polanski die to say bad things about them.
That article was actually pretty good and balanced. Connery wasn't a saint, no one needs to cannonise him, but i don't see the need to bag him over something he said 20, 30, 40 years ago. It's not like he raped someone or molested his step daughter.
Imagine all future funerals, after the eulogy someone else can step forward and provide the rebuttal. "Look, before we get too carried away, yeah David was a good bloke, but 40 years ago he said ------------------"
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Perfectly put Stu
David what do you actually get out of slagging dead people off? I really don’t get it. Why says anything if you can’t say something nice?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Did you actually read my post, TP? I wasn't slagging him off at all.
| stui magpie wrote: | Connery wasn't a saint, no one needs to cannonise him, but i don't see the need to bag him over something he said 20, 30, 40 years ago. It's not like he raped someone or molested his step daughter.
Imagine all future funerals, after the eulogy someone else can step forward and provide the rebuttal. "Look, before we get too carried away, yeah David was a good bloke, but 40 years ago he said ------------------" |
Two things: 1) I don't think an RIP thread on a forum is remotely like a eulogy. I would expect the speech at, say, Margaret Thatcher's funeral, written for an audience of friends and loved ones, to be very different to an obituary in a newspaper let alone a discussion on a bulletin board. Here, we are at much greater liberty to discuss the good and bad aspects of a person, as of course we have done on many occasions when controversial figures have died.
2) I'm not sure who here read the original Newsweek article I posted, but Connery has been accused by his ex-wife of repeatedly beating her during their marriage (so maybe not much better than rape or abuse after all?); his repeated assertions in interviews that he thought it was okay to hit women are a different matter, although obviously inextricably linked.
Now, you may think it gauche to bring that up the minute a celebrity kicks the bucket – and I think it is a bit too, and expressed as much in my post on the previous page in which I was supposedly "slagging him off" – but neither do I believe that random members of the public are somehow obligated to performatively grieve famous people or wait an arbitrary period of time before mentioning their misdeeds, as if we're personally offending them. I honestly find it difficult to understand that way of thinking.
Anyway, I think luvdids summed this all up pretty well one of the other times we had this argument:
| luvdids wrote: | | I've never really understood all the RIP threads that have this unwritten rule about only saying nice things. They're dead. Pretty sure they're not going to care what some forum member says about them. |
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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| think positive wrote: |
clearly, i have about 5 pages worth for when you beloved Woody finally kicks the bucket! or that french rapist guy! you will need to start a new "the place to say shit things about dead people who can no longer defend themselves!" thread! |
Haha, because if they were alive they'd be posting on Nicks defending themselves  |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I snipped the -snip- because it sounded like i said something out side the rules, where as i was answering to Ks post, which has been deleted. strange forum we live in! why did his post get deleted? not a fan of the first amendment??
LD its not about anyone defending themselves, its about those who want to celebrate the life or career of a person doing so without some one coming in with an unnecessary negative comment. Yes we can scroll on by, but then so could the negative nellys.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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