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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I will take that under consideration. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Not so clear, actually ; It was revealed after the trial that they had found multiple images on Rolf's computer with clearly paedophilic imagery, though it's unclear what age the models were. The Crown prosecution service do not intend to bring the case, given the success of the case already brought, but it looked very damning. |
Not the impression I got—from what I've heard he'd been looking at websites featuring "teenage girls" and the prosecutors were trying to ascertain how old they were. It might constitute child pornography if they were underage, but still absolutely nothing to suggest he is a paedophile. Indeed, if they were all 13+, as the Guardian article reported, it suggests the direct opposite. Harris might be an ephebophile or even a hebephile, but the British red tops have the wrong end of the stick with their "paedo" headlines. But hey, what's new?
For those who are wondering, this isn't mere semantics. In the law's eyes, it doesn't—or, at least, shouldn't—matter all that much what Rolf is as opposed to what he's done. But in terms of rehabilitation, it makes a fairly significant difference. If Harris were indeed a paedophile, that would mean that he had an abnormal primary attraction to children (i.e. under 12s), a condition that almost certainly cannot be cured and could potentially be an ongoing risk if left unmanaged. If he's in one of the other categories (i.e. someone who is attracted to young or just regular teenagers), then there's nothing seriously 'wrong' or unusual about his sexuality; he's just someone who needs to learn to keep his hands to himself. Chalk and cheese.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Good call all round IMO David
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Hmm... Ok, I'm educated as to the difference between paedophilia and ephebe- and hebephile variants, and yes, on the evidence, I grant your point, and its relevance. As i've said in the past, I think we should at least have some pity for any poor wretch who has those kinds of sexual desires, though I can see why we must treat acting on them as a crime.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yep, no arguments at all here (except I'd go further than pity—we need an actively compassionate approach including more open discourse and confidential, accessible therapeutic resources).
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Yep, no arguments at all here (except I'd go further than pity—we need an actively compassionate approach including more open discourse and confidential, accessible therapeutic resources). |
Indeed. But that would require us to stop our fanatical desire to demonstrate our personal virtue by burning witches. It isn't happening any time soon.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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All the witch burning is happening in England at the moment, and being shared gleefully by the world tabloid media.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
All the witch burning is happening in England at the moment, and being shared gleefully by the world tabloid media. |
My occasional glances at The Age make me suspect that it doesn't stop at the Indian Ocean. Appropriated outrage and specious offence-taking seem pretty plentiful there as well....
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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yeah, but no one reads the Aged. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Not so clear, actually ; It was revealed after the trial that they had found multiple images on Rolf's computer with clearly paedophilic imagery, though it's unclear what age the models were. The Crown prosecution service do not intend to bring the case, given the success of the case already brought, but it looked very damning. |
Not the impression I got—from what I've heard he'd been looking at websites featuring "teenage girls" and the prosecutors were trying to ascertain how old they were. It might constitute child pornography if they were underage, but still absolutely nothing to suggest he is a paedophile. Indeed, if they were all 13+, as the Guardian article reported, it suggests the direct opposite. Harris might be an ephebophile or even a hebephile, but the British red tops have the wrong end of the stick with their "paedo" headlines. But hey, what's new?
For those who are wondering, this isn't mere semantics. In the law's eyes, it doesn't—or, at least, shouldn't—matter all that much what Rolf is as opposed to what he's done. But in terms of rehabilitation, it makes a fairly significant difference. If Harris were indeed a paedophile, that would mean that he had an abnormal primary attraction to children (i.e. under 12s), a condition that almost certainly cannot be cured and could potentially be an ongoing risk if left unmanaged. If he's in one of the other categories (i.e. someone who is attracted to young or just regular teenagers), then there's nothing seriously 'wrong' or unusual about his sexuality; he's just someone who needs to learn to keep his hands to himself. Chalk and cheese. |
I said the keep his hands to himself a page or so back, the pity is he didnt. the sympathy for his victims.
This went on for a long time and he actually groomed one victim, I find that really disgusting, that takes real thinking. And planning. does this attraction to the young, defenceless, have something to do with the fact it's easy prey? (No I'm not suggesting there is no such mental illness as blah blah blah)
Anyhow, Now let's be honest, at his age any jail time is about punishment, not rehabilitation. Three years, out in 2, I think his victims deserve that. No way he should get to his grave without paying some kind of price.
And I hope it does get others shaking in their shoes. If they are guilty of the same, they should.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Not so clear, actually ; It was revealed after the trial that they had found multiple images on Rolf's computer with clearly paedophilic imagery, though it's unclear what age the models were. The Crown prosecution service do not intend to bring the case, given the success of the case already brought, but it looked very damning. |
Not the impression I got—from what I've heard he'd been looking at websites featuring "teenage girls" and the prosecutors were trying to ascertain how old they were. It might constitute child pornography if they were underage, but still absolutely nothing to suggest he is a paedophile. Indeed, if they were all 13+, as the Guardian article reported, it suggests the direct opposite. Harris might be an ephebophile or even a hebephile, but the British red tops have the wrong end of the stick with their "paedo" headlines. But hey, what's new?
For those who are wondering, this isn't mere semantics. In the law's eyes, it doesn't—or, at least, shouldn't—matter all that much what Rolf is as opposed to what he's done. But in terms of rehabilitation, it makes a fairly significant difference. If Harris were indeed a paedophile, that would mean that he had an abnormal primary attraction to children (i.e. under 12s), a condition that almost certainly cannot be cured and could potentially be an ongoing risk if left unmanaged. If he's in one of the other categories (i.e. someone who is attracted to young or just regular teenagers), then there's nothing seriously 'wrong' or unusual about his sexuality; he's just someone who needs to learn to keep his hands to himself. Chalk and cheese. |
I said the keep his hands to himself a page or so back, the pity is he didnt. the sympathy for his victims.
This went on for a long time and he actually groomed one victim, I find that really disgusting, that takes real thinking. And planning. does this attraction to the young, defenceless, have something to do with the fact it's easy prey? (No I'm not suggesting there is no such mental illness as blah blah blah)
Anyhow, Now let's be honest, at his age any jail time is about punishment, not rehabilitation. Three years, out in 2, I think his victims deserve that. No way he should get to his grave without paying some kind of price.
And I hope it does get others shaking in their shoes. If they are guilty of the same, they should. |
Actually, TP, he got nearly 6 years, out in 3, which I think most us agree is about right given his age. I was a little surprised that the jury convicted him on the 13 yo victim claim, as I thought there was a lack of corroborating evidence that it started before she was 18 ; but after the revelations about his internet tastes, it sounds as though the jury got it right. They often do.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Yeah I know what he got, I meant they say he will be out in 3, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was out in 2 or less.
I don't think they got it right, I think he should serve 6, his time for good behaviour is too far gone. Maybe if he admitted guilt and seemed apologetic. Maybe
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I understand. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Glad somebody does
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | does this attraction to the young, defenceless, have something to do with the fact it's easy prey? (No I'm not suggesting there is no such mental illness as blah blah blah) |
Are you talking about the attraction or the decision to abuse? The general understanding of the first is that it's just a sexual preference, not unlike heterosexuality or homosexuality (though it's not always exclusive). As for the desire to sexually abuse and acting out of that desire, it could be many factors, one of which might in many cases could well be "easy prey". The particular crimes committed by Harris seem to me like a serious lack of personal impulse control combined with perhaps a sexual fixation on young teenage girls.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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