Is Cloke the best CHF in the league?

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RudeBoy
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Post by RudeBoy »

He has been the form CHF in the AFL for over a month, and just gets better each week. If we can get him and Rocca firing together we'll be near unbeatable.
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Lone Ranger
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Post by Lone Ranger »

He is certainly playing well and improving but there is still a bloke called Jonathon Brown running around. Best CHF by a MILE.
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melliot
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Post by melliot »

Lone Ranger wrote:He is certainly playing well and improving but there is still a bloke called Jonathon Brown running around. Best CHF by a MILE.


He has been playing more FF this year IMO.
Joel
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Post by Joel »

Lone Ranger, J.Brown is a great CHF, but he hasn't been too great this year.
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Zakal
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Post by Zakal »

Lone Ranger wrote:He is certainly playing well and improving but there is still a bloke called Jonathon Brown running around. Best CHF by a MILE.



JB is far better on paper than Cloke....but has played about 2 good games for the entire year.

If i was selecting a theoretical side to win a flag, id take JB over Clokey (at this stage of their careers), but not based on this years form.
Cannibal
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Post by Cannibal »

According to allthestats.com, Brown has had 13 more possessions, taken 10 more marks and kicked 17 more goals this season than Cloke has. Brown also arguably won last weekend's match for Brisbane on the back of his scintillating first quarter (not sure about whether he has made the difference in any other Brisbane match this season but happy to be corrected if anyone can remind me!), whereas Cloke hasn't yet won any matches off his own boot. On the basic facts, Brown is still the better current CHF.

Having said that, the gap is only truly wide in goalscoring and, after last weekend's match, it's clear that Travis is coming on by leaps and bounds, so it's only a matter of time before he can be anointed the best CHF. Next season, perhaps? And, it may only be a short time before he starts to reel Brown in on premiership medallions, too!
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xtcc
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Post by xtcc »

The difference between Trav now & the start of the year is he is attacking the ball. His confidence is starting to build & i am sure his kicking will also.
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David
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Post by David »

The Truth wrote:No way he'll make the AA team, but I'm personally ecstatic at his progress.

I think PP's point was that, if Cloke is indeed the best CHF in the comp, he should be chosen at CHF in the AA side.

I'm not sure if that's how they pick the side, but to be honest I think Cloke would be a long shot to make it in this year. The Collingwood players who are a good chance would probably be Swanny, Heath and Lockyer.
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Tannin
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Post by Tannin »

I'd put them in this order:

Pavlich
Lucas
Brown
Cloke
Riewoldt

I don't especially rate Riewoldt: he's fantastic to watch but a lot of the time he doesn't damage sides the way that both Pavlich and Lucas do. The same applies to Cloke, in a way, but that seems to be changing. T. Cloke is getting to be a very effective user of the ball. Line-ball with Riewoldt right now, but he will only get better, where Riewoldt has probably reached his limit.

Oh, but against what I just said, neither Pav nor Lucas are real 100% team players.
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RudeBoy
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Post by RudeBoy »

Cannibal wrote:According to allthestats.com, Brown has had 13 more possessions, taken 10 more marks and kicked 17 more goals this season than Cloke has. Brown also arguably won last weekend's match for Brisbane on the back of his scintillating first quarter (not sure about whether he has made the difference in any other Brisbane match this season but happy to be corrected if anyone can remind me!), whereas Cloke hasn't yet won any matches off his own boot. On the basic facts, Brown is still the better current CHF.

Having said that, the gap is only truly wide in goalscoring and, after last weekend's match, it's clear that Travis is coming on by leaps and bounds, so it's only a matter of time before he can be anointed the best CHF. Next season, perhaps? And, it may only be a short time before he starts to reel Brown in on premiership medallions, too!


You're probably right, but to be honest I've never seen Brown play a really good game against us - which means I've never seen him play a really good game - ever! This is because Presti generally does such a great job in stopping him. Judging the CHBs which have played against us this year, I'd pick Cloke above any of them.
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Post by nomadjack »

Has been great for us most of this season and has shown enough to suggest he could become one of the best CHF's going around. At the moment though I'd put him behind Brown, Lucas, Pavlich, and Riewoldt. There's a couple of guys named Richardson and Tredrea that have gone alright over a few years as well. Long-term I think he will be better than most on this list, but he has a fair way to go yet before he passes any of them IMO.
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Piethagoras' Theorem
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Post by Piethagoras' Theorem »

Personally I think Pavlich is the standout CHF in the competition, a player I believe Trav plays very similarly to. Travis at his age though is as good if not better than most of the players mentioned in this thread.

BTW, anyone catch Sheehan's article in the Hun today

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 63,00.html

Move over Rocca, Cloke on rise

18 July 2007 AFL

Mike Sheahan

A SUBTLE shift is taking place at Collingwood, a changing of the guard, as Mike Sheahan writes.

The player who has worried opposing teams most during the Michael Malthouse era is being superseded by one almost 10 years his junior.

Anthony Rocca, 30 in August, has been seen for several years as the man most likely to turn a game the Magpies way.

Yet, week by week, Travis Cloke, 20, is wresting the mantle from him.

Cloke accumulated 20 possessions in Saturday's loss to Geelong, took 10 marks and kicked 4.1.

In 15 games this year, he has averaged 11.7 kicks, 15 disposals and seven marks.

Significantly, he doesn't seem to have the shockers that Rocca has suffered.

Rocca had just seven possessions against Geelong on Saturday, took four marks and kicked 1.0.

In Round 11, he had just one kick and one handball against Melbourne and failed to score.

Both of them have had their problems kicking for goal, but Cloke is growing in confidence and efficiency; Rocca might be more erratic now than ever.

Cloke's conversion rate is just under 50 per cent (23.26) and getting better. Rocca is marginally above 50 per cent (26.25) and doing what he has done since his debut in 1995.

He is an outstanding prospect, Cloke. Has been since his debut in 2005. As happens so often, he was subjected to harsh scrutiny early on.

Because it's Collingwood, and because of his name.

He is playing well in the toughest position on the field at 20. That's outstanding.

He has super hands, is athletic, mobile and durable, and brave. Unlike the young Rocca, he has a big engine; like the young (and old) Rocca, he can roost the ball up to 60m.

What he has done is give Collingwood another viable avenue to goal, easing what has been an unhealthy reliance on Rocca.

Rocca has kicked at least one goal in nine of his 13 games this year; three or more seven times, with a best return of five.

He has a huge reputation inside the club, one built on his strength, his ability to take a big pack mark, his ability to convert from 60m and his contribution in the 2002 Grand Final, when he kicked 4.1 from 10 kicks in a game the Brisbane Lions won by nine points.

Cloke, though, gets to more contests, has better hands, and certainly has the endurance to present more often.

Does he get too far up the ground, or go too wide? Maybe, but the depth in his kicking minimises the problem.

While the Magpies always believed he was the pick of the three Cloke boys, there are plenty of times when the younger brother doesn't live up to the expectations.

This isn't one of them.

Jason may have played in a Grand Final (2003) and Cameron might prove Collingwood wrong at Carlton in his second try, but Travis clearly is the pick of David's (and Julie's) boys.

The media focus on Collingwood this year has centred on youngsters, and the pride of the pack: Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Tyson Goldsack, Martin Clarke and company.

Yet, Cloke was born in the same year as Thomas, Goldsack and Clarke, and is just 10 months older than Pendlebury. He has a long way to go to match his father's 333 games (for Richmond and Collingwood), but he is going to be a key player for a long time.
Attachments
New focal point: Anthony Rocca has been seen as the main target for the Magpies in front of goal, but promising youngster Travis Cloke is quickly becoming the club's 'go to man' as Mike Sheahan explains.
New focal point: Anthony Rocca has been seen as the main target for the Magpies in front of goal, but promising youngster Travis Cloke is quickly becoming the club's 'go to man' as Mike Sheahan explains.
trav.jpg (34.85 KiB) Viewed 2305 times
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ad4eva
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Post by ad4eva »

wasnt a bad article but it really shot down Rocca.

Cant wait to have Benny Reid in there too.

Cant wait to see Chris Dawes in their either.
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stui magpie
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Post by stui magpie »

Speaking of Reiwoldt, anyone else see the little pit in Tuesday's Hun, "at the bar" wih Robbo and Ando?

I think it was Robbo who wouldn't put Reiwoldt as a genuine CHF like Brown or Pav but called him just a far better version of Chris Tarrant. :P
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Cannibal
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Post by Cannibal »

Tannin wrote:I'd put them in this order:

Pavlich
Lucas
Brown
Cloke
Riewoldt

I don't especially rate Riewoldt: he's fantastic to watch but a lot of the time he doesn't damage sides the way that both Pavlich and Lucas do. The same applies to Cloke, in a way, but that seems to be changing. T. Cloke is getting to be a very effective user of the ball. Line-ball with Riewoldt right now, but he will only get better, where Riewoldt has probably reached his limit.

Oh, but against what I just said, neither Pav nor Lucas are real 100% team players.


Interesting post, mate.

On the basics stats, you're pretty much spot on.

I added total scoring shots and accuracy factors to the allthestats numbers to see if that added some value to this issue and rate the 5 players in this order:

Lucas 238 poss, 115 marks, 46 goals 25 behinds @ 65% accuracy
Pavlich 248 poss, 128 marks, 45 goals 33 behinds @ 58% accuracy
Brown 231 poss, 119 marks, 40 goals 22 behinds @ 65% accuracy
Riewoldt 228 poss, 121 marks, 23 goals 14 behinds @ 62% accuracy
Cloke 218 poss, 109 marks, 23 goals 26 behinds @ 47% accuracy

You could make a case to swap Lucas and Pavlich. Pavo is the higher possession winner but I've opted to place Lucas first because of the accuracy factor, as it makes him a slightly more damaging player. But, really, there's not much difference between the two of them. They are clearly as damaging as you say, Tannin.

Brown rates just below these two guys on scoreboard impact, although his possession tally is more or less the same.

There's bugger-all difference between Riewoldt and Cloke but Riewoldt gets the nod due to a higher possession & mark count and a significantly better accuracy rate.

As many of us have commented this year, Cloke's "problem" is goal scoring accuracy. If he was as accurate as Lucas, he'd have scored 31 goals 18 behinds and that would have placed him well ahead of Riewoldt and just below Brown.

So, Lucas and Pavo are clearly the two best CHF's going around this season, just ahead of Brown, but Cloke can be considered at least Riewoldt's equal and needs only to become more accurate in front of goal to end up a very damaging player indeed. It will happen.
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