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Pre-Match - The Big One: Collingwood v Hawthorn

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collingwoodjoe 



Joined: 14 Mar 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:32 pm
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Also, looking over the Hawks wins and losses this year it seems like if you allow a shootout they will blow most teams away, however if you close things down and hang tough, they can be ground down, Sydney did it, Freo did it, we play that kind of game well, and we should bring it to the Hawks, we need Burns, Swan, Lockyer, Pendles, O'Bree, Licuria, Johno and Clarke, and Holland if he plays, to run in packs, put pressure on the ball-carrier and run off their opponents in waves when in possesion.

We must make this a low-scoring arm-wrestle and put the young Hawks under extreme mental duress, with our more experienced hard-men, like Burns, Lockyer, O'Bree and Licca to get into the heads of the youngsters they have around the ball like Lewis and Sewell.

If we create the pressure we did against the Swans, we will go a long way towards winning the game, but we need to be switched on and hard at it from the word go, and stay switched on, and keep hard at it, for the full four quarters, regardless of any passing surges the Hawks may manage.

They are playing a style that is susceptible to pressure and pressure is exactly what we must deliver.

GO PIES!

(ps, I still think MEdhurst needs to come in for Holland!)

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Podpicken Cancer



Joined: 28 Oct 2006


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:21 am
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I'm liking every point you make, Joe, especially about brining in Reid and Medders, but I reckon maybe Stanners could probably make way for Medders and not Holland. When you talk about Hawks being suspect with pressure, you're absolutely right - and there are none better to apply that kind of pressure than Holland.
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favourites 2008 

The Machine


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Location: Mooroolbark

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:41 am
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Ins:
Medhurst, Reid
Outs
Stanners, Rocca

Although bringing in reid for stanners may not occur if they think we require extra runners. Maybe dick, isles, cook or davies will come in.

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wa magpie Taurus

The Future


Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Location: Perth, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:44 am
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I reckon bring in Bryan, so he and Josh can share the ruck duties with Stretch. Then play either Josh or Bryan at full forward rotating through the ruck. Both are big fellas and are still going to worry the Hawks backline. We have seen (against the Crows) that Bryan can play forward and KICK goals - something we do have trouble doing successfully.

If we apply the same pressure we did against Sydney, I reckon we can roll these youngsters. It will definately be our older, more harder bodies that need to stand up (again) and hit them hard.

Lets face it, Sydney ARE a better side than the Hawks, its just that the Hawks at the moment have their tails up, while the Swans are in a slump.

WE CAN DO THIS!!

Carn pies, I thought last weeks win was the best in a long while, but if we get up this week, Malthouse IS a genius.

Cheers.
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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:43 am
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I doubt MM will want to change the side around much. In fact it's important that we try to stabilise our line-up as much as possible. For that reason I reckon there will only be one, or possibly two changes. I can't see MM playing Josh, Richards and Bryan. For all those who would like josh on the forward line, it's worth pointing out that he is in great form in the ruck at the moment, and that's where we need him the most. As mentioned elsewhere, I reckon Stanley might have to make way for Medhurst, with Reid coming in for Rocca. I don't think there will be any more changes than that, and there might only be one change.
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:20 pm
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This could just be the Grand Final preview. This is the match which will show both sides exactly where they are up to. Hawthorn and Collingwood are two of the five stand-out improvers in the comp this year( alongside North, Geelong, and Carlton), both are young sides, both have the potential to be serious contenders over the next five years or more.

But where are they up to now? Big improvers with talent? Or genuine premership contenders? This is the match which will show us the answer.

It's not a clear cut win/lose situation: if the Pies win it doesn't mean the Hawks still have a way to go, and if Hawthorn win it doesn't mean Collingwood are not there yet, it's all about how they play. If the result is close (as I think it will be), it could mean that both sides are contenders, or it could mean that neither one is there. It all depends on how they play, on the level of skill and determination they show.

Good sides are in the contest every game, they score and run and pressure and win clearances whether they win or lose. Saturday will be a big test for both teams. My guess is that both will perform well. With both sides injury-free, Collingwood would be favoured to win. But as they will line up, you have to say the Hawks are clear favourites.

There is another thing about good sides: they are flexible enough to roll with the blows of injury or suspension. Great sides never depend on one or two players: Hawthorn without Dermie were still formidable, the Lions could win without Black or Brown or Acker, the 1990s Essendon without Hird was still the best team in the comp.

OK, Collingwood is missing more than just Rocca: we also have a makeshift defence without Clement, Presti, Harry and Racer .... but there is nothing wrong with our midfield and our rucks are in the best shape they have been since Monkey retired; we have some astonishingly good young defenders in Goldsack, Cox, and Clarke: we took the game right up to Sydney and beat them with relentless pressure. Now the challenge is to do the same with Hawthorn, and go one further by doing it without Big Ant.

Last week our midfielders and defenders had to show their mettle, while Daisy and Rocca looked after kicking a score. This week, the midfielders and backs have to redouble their efforts - Hawthorn are younger and fastr than the ageing Swans - and the forwards must shine: Cloke must kick straighter, Daisy has to demonstrate that he is more than just an random sometimes wonder kid and bag two or three, Didak and Davis need to kick at least a couple each, and Paul Medhurst has to play a career-defining role out of the goal square.

This is not the time to reach into the youth basket and play yet another first-game kid. Trusting the youngsters has been a great policy all year, and should continue, but you can go to any well once too often. We should think very hard before playing Reid - a lead and mark forward who has been outstanding once for Williamstown. You don't earn a Collingwood jumper on the strength of one good game.

Changes:

Out: Rocca (susp), Holland
In: Medhurst, Iles
Emerg: Davies, Reid, Bryan
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collingwoodjoe 



Joined: 14 Mar 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:02 pm
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He's played well two games in a row now, and has been therabouts for a month, his is the style of play that would really benifit from the improved delivery he is likely to get from the likes of Didak and co at AFL level. He also forces Hawthawn to play a tall defender on him, which prevents them totally overpowering us in defence. finally he provides a decoy for Medders leads and a focus for our crumbers.

I say

IN:
Reid
Medhurst

OUT:
Rocca
Holland or Stanley

EMG:
Bryan
Cook
Brown

(naming talls in the emg may force Hawks to prepare for them with defensive selections.)

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qldpie02 



Joined: 19 Mar 2006


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:31 pm
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weeellll i reckon that Didak will kick quite a few, ok, a lot....
anyway
Whatta bout BURNS? as plan E....lol remember when we had NO ONE (2006?) everyone was injured and burnsy played up forward and we went small and killed whoever we were playing? i reckon u could put clarkey or stanners in the middle to play the burns role (remember this is not plan A, just an extra one, maybe for time-on or something)

i also think we should try and push Buddy up the ground, if hes up the ground hes not kicking goals..even if he gets ten marks on the wing i dont care, just get him out of the fifty.
and if the ruckman is to be the loose man down back it cant be richards its gotta be Bryan. hes not scared and has a bigger body to bash and crash with and try and keep Fraser down foward.
i also reckon that Bryan should replace Rocca, direct swap. Or we totally rejig the forward line and get Medhurst in the team and Fraser as an extra tall foward.
we can totally do this!!
remember theyll be quite a few players who havent played on the Dome yet (last time was against the Dogs) but theres still a few youngens who havent played there, it might take them a while to adjust, even tho theres nothing to adjust to, its footy in a vacuum.
P.S i reckon the Two weeks might be exactly what rocca is needing - a rest, more goal kicking practice, the spotlight is off him for a while etc (im trying to look for a positive ok!)

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~Madness~ Aries

...The Cat...


Joined: 29 May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Au

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:49 pm
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First time this year Im going into a game with a total lack of confidence. No idea who they are gonna bring in or out so will wait until Sunday to see.
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Piethagoras' Theorem Taurus

the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk


Joined: 29 May 2006


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:19 pm
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C'mon Maddy, where's your faith? You saw how we destroyed Sydney, there's no reason why we can't do the same this week against the Dawks. There's nothing I like more than to go in as underdog and stick it up everyone. Let's not forget this mob lost to Sydney here at home only 2 and a bit weeks ago
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redmick Gemini



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Location: In my shed watching the pies

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:36 pm
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Im thinking bring Chris in as a tall forward option.
This gives us a three way rotation in the ruck.
I would not think of moving Trav as he is giving us a moving key position to get the ball in or if it is an option go for goal (every forward misses) Just think of Rocca he might not have a great record but the contests and the work rate worries any opposition.
Medhurst might be an option but he is not versatile enough to be able to be moved out of the forward line.
I like the Burns option in the forward line if needed.
Reid would be a dark horse but if his game was anything like the other debutants how could the selection committee go wrong.
I do not know what kind of backline the hawks have but maybe we might be better with a small fast backline???
As for our backline after last week i dont think any change is required.Shane (the rock) wakelin led the kids from the front

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:44 pm
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I'm nervous about this game. Zakal gave a very good summary but the value of Rocca isn't the goals he kicks but his presence. He straightens us up and provides a target, as I've said before, other than a leading one. Players can kick to the contest in confidence that if he doesn't mark it he's not going to get outmarked often.

That's the reason I'd favour Bryn over Reid as a swap for Rocca. Bryan isn't half the footballer Rocca is when he's on song but he has a much harder body that Reid. Until Reid puts on some pounds he's a tall kid with good hands and good speed, not ready to try to crash packs against older harder bodies.

If MM wants to play Reid for the sake of development and the kid gets buffeted, lets take the positive that he's got a game and not all kick MM or the kid. I won't like it but I can swallow it.

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~Madness~ Aries

...The Cat...


Joined: 29 May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Au

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:09 am
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frankiboy wrote:
C'mon Maddy, where's your faith? You saw how we destroyed Sydney, there's no reason why we can't do the same this week against the Dawks. There's nothing I like more than to go in as underdog and stick it up everyone. Let's not forget this mob lost to Sydney here at home only 2 and a bit weeks ago


Now ya know im usually the "glass is half full" girl and I generally think we can win all the time, just this time with Rocca out, I think we will struggle. I've said a heap of times he is my first picked, so now he's out, the structure up there will be a little uneven. Not saying we CANT win, but just not confident. You know I only know 4 hawthorn supporters and I work with 3 of them. I am copping it at work already! ALL of whom are saying "we'd rather play you with Rocca in". YEAH sure you would ya tossers! I'd much rather play west coast with Judd in too....NOT!

Anyway, I might gain confidence once I see the team, or have a few frothy's...lol..

I'm working on it frankiemagpie

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regan is true fullback 



Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:25 am
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This is a big time danger game. Not just because we are playing a contender.

Collingwood has not won a Sunday or Monday game yet (2 losses late in the weekend) and has not won at Geoffrey Stadium yet (1 game one loss). This is due to the Cardinals' policy of playing their drawcard on Friday or Saturday at the MCG.

So they have two psychological barriers to overcome, similar to beating Brisroy at the Gabba.

If you think this stuff is meaningless check how many times we have beaten Melbourne in recent times, even when they were crap, or how many times we beat Hawthorn in the late '80s and early nineties even when we were premiers.

I believe we can do it, but it requires an even bigger effort than the Swans game.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:57 am
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On Medders, Gotchy in the Willy report seemed to indicate he played both in the midfield and up forward (what Gotchy wrote was a bit vague), so I'm wondering if anyone knows how much time he played up forward as a target. This may have an impact on how we use him against Hawthorn (although it may not, too).
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