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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ trolling level that one, sorry not worth engaging. Next. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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It's come to something when a polite question is taking to be trolling. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Pies4shaw wrote: | It's come to something when a polite question is taking to be trolling. |
It's come further when an implied Nazi slur is not even denied by you. _________________ Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ I think that is part of the strategy here, Jezza. If we can grow desensitized to this, we can grow desensitised to simpler outrages against our values and decencies. Break down order and values, and create the sense that these things are semi-normal and to be implicitly accepted and tolerated, and you create the conditions for revolutionary change. It's the only route these people have to power. It has worked for them in the ME, and over time, it may well work here too. One has only to listen to the ebbing tide of useless and irresolute emoting that accompanies each outrage. People don't even bother to colour their Facebook page with the Turkish flag, nowadays.
That said, Turkey is a unique country in its exposure to IS and to Syria, and what happens there has a rather different set of roots to the outrages that happen in Western Europe. The same broad forces are probably at work, but the context is important.
In other interesting and reputably-sourced news, police in Koln arrested 92 people on NYE around the station. 16 were German. There is either a lot of prejudice involved, or the integration project has a long way to go. Germany used to be a very well-functioning society based on respect for rules, law and order. Oh well. |
I think you are on the right track here. I can remember snippets of a pre-9/11 world, but I was only 7 years of age when 9/11 happened, without fully grasping the serious nature of the attacks and the ramifications that would occur after that.
I have grown up in an era where this has become commonplace and all too frequent, but I'd like to think that no decent country or civilisation will start to implicitly tolerate this barbaric violence, and at some point crackdowns will appear without necessarily curbing one's civil liberties.
I have read various articles online a few months back when the Brussels terror attacks occurred that suggest that global markets have become 'desensitised' to terrorist attacks as well, something that would have been unheard when 9/11 occurred.
Geopolitically, Turkey's role in the Syrian conflict is highly complex. They have been providing support to the Syrian opposition against the Assad regime and indirectly supporting ISIS in some areas of Syria by targeting the Kurds, which has been an ongoing conflict for decades. Plus, we're seeing Erdogan begin to Islamise public institutions in Turkey and drive a wedge between Turkey and it's secular roots as he emphasises on a Neo-Ottoman ideology.
It is well-known that Germany's project to import mass numbers of people, predominantly from the Middle East has had major issues and the backlash against Merkel and the EU has become evident in the past year. Although, Merkel still remains popular and on track to remain leader of Germany if latest polling trends are correct. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Yes, Jezza, we did enter a new world on 9/11 : a world where we can foresee any level of violence being used indiscriminately against us by an irrational and nihilistic enemy, whose agents are deeply embedded in our society. A world where the nation state is so weakened and porous that it can barely be mobilized to organize against the new type of menace. We are all still trying to make sense of the world in the light of that epoch-defining event.
On Merkel, I presume that she was animated by superficially good impulses, probably rooted in a misplaced desire to exculpate war guilt which has passed its statute of limitations. However, it has been act of astonishing political recklessness, unilaterally embroiling her European partners on the Mediterranean and Balkan front line in a wave of illegal immigration, emboldening the far right across the continent, exposing the German people and society to major and minor crime in a way which exceeded any democratic mandate, and putting at risk Germany's cultural and social fabric longer-term. If she is returned in the elections late next year it will be a testament, I suspect, to the lack of any credible true Conservative alternative, and the Germans' understandable paralysis in light of their history.
There were humanitarian alternatives to her recklessness and poor judgement. A policy of funding refugee camps and screening Syrian applicants in safe areas of Turkey, and then accepting those (especially families) who are genuinely and demonstrably Syrian refugees, might have filtered out the kind of passportless Tunisian who committed the Christmas market outrage. The Syrian people do need help, and we should be accepting more of them while doing more to assure their safety closer to home. If we can once again establish the line between asylum and illegal immigration, despite our home-grown revolutionaries who see it as a way to denature and destabilize their own societies, we may be in a position to do so.
<Further discussion on Germany's refugee policy moved here: http://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1743424#1743424 > _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Bloody sad isn't it. I remember not so long ago my biggest fear on New Years Eve was some drunk taking out one of my kids. And now I have to worry if some lunatic is at the same event as them, ready with a gun or a bomb. Even going to the footy, the big shake down to get in the ground. I don't want my children to have to grow up with that kind if fear in their lives. Where does it end? War is something that happens in third world countries, surely in this day and age, and you'd think it would be close to getting stamped out by now. How the hell did we get to this?
The 9/11 memorial is much more than a couple of big pretty squares of waterfall. The museum underneath, built right where one tower stood, so you can still see bits of the actual building and the damage...... it's one of the most heart breaking things I have ever seen, heard, felt. And I pray that we never have such a memorial here.
As for bringing the Nazis into it, please don't. And may nothing ever be able to be compared to the sheer size, evil, torture, murder, that happened at that time in history.
If closing the door for a while, until proper checks can be completed, no matter how long that takes, well it has to be done. Surely the plight of Europe shows that. Surely you have a right to protect your own citizens, before helping others. (That doesn't mean you don't help them, it just means you have to do it slower, and more carefully) Something has to be done about a religious thing sect being able to brainwash its disciples into committing murder. And that's what it is. It's not war, it's not a fight for freedom, it's a fight for power. It's not racial, it's a bunch of 'normal' people using religion as an excuse to do evil.
As for the home grown terrorists, kick em out, or lock them up, no second chances. Shit heads like the Apex gang, zero tolerance. The judicial system in this country is far too lenient. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Dimitrious Gargasoulas... facebook post..Friday 6.44pm
"Yazdanism, that is who I am, I am not Greek Tongan, I am actually Greek Islanic Kurdish...... angel of cult.... i promise and hold a lot if answers"
Yazdânism, or the Cult of Angels, is a pre-Islamic, native religion of the Kurds. The term was introduced by Kurdish scholar Mehrdad Izady to represent what he considers the "original" religion of the Kurds[1] as the primary inhabitants of the Zagros Mountains, until their increasing Islamization in the course of the 10th century.[citation needed]
According to Izady, Yazdânism is now continued in the denominations of Yazidism, Yarsanism, and Ishikism (Alevism).[2] The three traditions subsumed under the term Yazdânism are primarily practiced in relatively isolated communities, from Khurasan to Anatolia and southern Iran.
If this isn't a terrorist attack, I'm Michelle Obama.
Why do the medua treat us like fools?! _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Skids wrote: | Dimitrious Gargasoulas... facebook post..Friday 6.44pm
.......
Why do the medua treat us like fools?! |
Well let me see, hmmm _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Skids wrote: | Dimitrious Gargasoulas... facebook post..Friday 6.44pm
"Yazdanism, that is who I am, I am not Greek Tongan, I am actually Greek Islanic Kurdish...... angel of cult.... i promise and hold a lot if answers"
Yazdânism, or the Cult of Angels, is a pre-Islamic, native religion of the Kurds. The term was introduced by Kurdish scholar Mehrdad Izady to represent what he considers the "original" religion of the Kurds[1] as the primary inhabitants of the Zagros Mountains, until their increasing Islamization in the course of the 10th century.[citation needed]
According to Izady, Yazdânism is now continued in the denominations of Yazidism, Yarsanism, and Ishikism (Alevism).[2] The three traditions subsumed under the term Yazdânism are primarily practiced in relatively isolated communities, from Khurasan to Anatolia and southern Iran.
If this isn't a terrorist attack, I'm Michelle Obama.
Why do the medua treat us like fools?! |
Yazidism is nothing at all to do with Islam, Skids. ISIS persecuted, murdered and enslaved the Yazidis recently as a result. _________________ Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Skids wrote: | Dimitrious Gargasoulas... facebook post..Friday 6.44pm
"Yazdanism, that is who I am, I am not Greek Tongan, I am actually Greek Islanic Kurdish...... angel of cult.... i promise and hold a lot if answers"
Yazdânism, or the Cult of Angels, is a pre-Islamic, native religion of the Kurds. The term was introduced by Kurdish scholar Mehrdad Izady to represent what he considers the "original" religion of the Kurds[1] as the primary inhabitants of the Zagros Mountains, until their increasing Islamization in the course of the 10th century.[citation needed]
According to Izady, Yazdânism is now continued in the denominations of Yazidism, Yarsanism, and Ishikism (Alevism).[2] The three traditions subsumed under the term Yazdânism are primarily practiced in relatively isolated communities, from Khurasan to Anatolia and southern Iran.
If this isn't a terrorist attack, I'm Michelle Obama.
Why do the medua treat us like fools?! |
Looking a bit pasty there since leaving the white house Michelle. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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This is pretty opportunistic even by your standards, Skids. In another Facebook post, old mate Jimmy said he was being commanded by "the gods", plural. These are the ravings of a lunatic, not those of an adherent of any recognisable religion.
But even if you could establish that he was a real-life Muslim, that fact would obviously be incidental to label this a terrorist attack is absurd in the sense that there were no political or religious motives whatsoever.
The only real question here is: why is it so important to you to believe that every atrocity that occurs is an Islamist terror attack? _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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i reckon everyone fleeing that Mall thought it was an act of terror.
not every attack is a muslim terrorist attack.
a lunatic? all terrorist ravings are those of a lunatic,
religion is just an excuse, don't make it a valid one _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Do you have any idea what I am talking about? |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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It's not nitpicking to try to establish a clear definition of these terms. Nearly all acts of physical violence give their victims (whether they number 1 or 1000) a feeling of terror; but we use the term 'terrorism' specifically to refer to those acts that use the terror of victims and much more importantly, that of people who aren't victims to achieve political or religious goals. This is why, unlike some leftists, I'm hesitant to refer to, say, US drone strikes as terrorist attacks (which is not to say that government-ordained military strikes can't be terroristic in intent).
An act of terrorism can most certainly be committed by someone working alone (like Timothy McVeigh, Anders Breivik or our own Man Haron Monis), but I really don't think this (or Julian Knight, or Martin Bryant) qualifies. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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David wrote: | This is pretty opportunistic even by your standards, Skids. In another Facebook post, old mate Jimmy said he was being commanded by "the gods", plural. These are the ravings of a lunatic, not those of an adherent of any recognisable religion.
But even if you could establish that he was a real-life Muslim, that fact would obviously be incidental to label this a terrorist attack is absurd in the sense that there were no political or religious motives whatsoever.
The only real question here is: why is it so important to you to believe that every atrocity that occurs is an Islamist terror attack? |
http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/crime/rampaging-melbourne-drivers-troubling-facebook-posts-revealed/news-story/9f31c53361bee9ce2ab4982a496a9c5d
Here's the link I inadvertently missed from the original post for you David.
Why do I call it a terrorist attack...
Type of: act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act. the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. coup de main, surprise attack.
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/terrorist%20attack
Seems to fit the criteria to me and also looks similar to Islamic attacks in Germany & France. He pledges his allegiance to some crazy religion, maybe it's not Islam, just another bunch of Middle Eastern loonies. _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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