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burton
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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| GoWoodsmen wrote: | According to papers this morning if Beams stays we don't have room in the cap to accommodate Varcoe.
seems a little odd given the retirements of Q, Ball, Maxy and Huddo. We haven't signed that many contract extensions since those announcements were made - and certainly no big contracts, all young players etc. |
This seems right, particularly if we sign Greenwood at $450K per year as reported.
As good as it was to get games into our young brigade last year, by my calculations we paid Landon $135K, Frost $140K when for first year players and a Rookie they'd be looking at $60-100K. If Langdon plays say 20 games next year he'll make $185K that's a payrise of $50K that has to come from somewhere. It may not seem a lot but it does erode the TPPs.
I don't think Ball was on a lot in his final year, I remember it being reported that he'd play for as little as $80-100K to keep Thomas.
Lynch was on around $250K as reported when he signed as a free agent, although he didn't play at all so his match payment component might make this figure lower.
Clarke wouldn't have been on huge money - maybe $100K + match payments and it's hard to guess for Maxwell but I wouldn't say a huge amount since he was no longer the captain $300-$400K (someone correct me if this is off the mark).
Lumumba, say $350K-ish
Was Hudson's role as a ruck coach excluded from the cap and paid out of the football department. Could they do this? If so he'd then probably be on base Rookie salary + payments under the cap - that's only $60,495.
That's not a lot really spare considering Goldy just signed for a slightly larger contract ~$325K, essentially taking Lumumba's salary. We also signed Broomhead, Kennedy, Grundy, Blair, Reid is on more coin as well. And Sidebottom.
Goldy's old wage plus Ball's would cover Greenwood.
It's little wonder we didn't match the $700K for Thomas last year - we couldn't. We have Pendles $900K, Cloke $900K, Swan $800K, Reid $500K, Brown $400K, Sidebottom $450K and Beams $400K all smashing our cap. That's 41% of the cap for 7 players. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I can understand those who don't like Varcoe in particular, but the strategy is perfectly logical and exactly in line with comments coming from the club before the trade period. We are, as much as possible, looking to keep our team development plan intact. That means bringing a player 25+ years of age in for Lumumba and one around 25 for Beams, that would be likely to play in our best 22. At the moment the two we are looking at are Greenwood (25) and Varcoe (26). Greenwood for the Beams-like inside work and Varcoe for Lumumba-like line-breaking. Neither are facsimiles of the players they are replacing, but they are of a broadly similar type.
For those who question Varcoe based on age, he is only 26 and we have 2/3 players over 28 in our entire squad. We are at no risk of being too old even for a team that is rebuilding.
So, question his ability if you like, that's completely legitimate. But in terms of age profile and type, his signing makes perfect sense, as does the list management strategy behind it. |
It's not the strategy I have an issue with, it's the players being targeted. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Stinger wrote: | | GoWoodsmen wrote: | According to papers this morning if Beams stays we don't have room in the cap to accommodate Varcoe.
seems a little odd given the retirements of Q, Ball, Maxy and Huddo. We haven't signed that many contract extensions since those announcements were made - and certainly no big contracts, all young players etc. |
This seems right, particularly if we sign Greenwood at $450K per year as reported.
As good as it was to get games into our young brigade last year, by my calculations we paid Landon $135K, Frost $140K when for first year players and a Rookie they'd be looking at $60-100K. If Langdon plays say 20 games next year he'll make $185K that's a payrise of $50K that has to come from somewhere. It may not seem a lot but it does erode the TPPs.
I don't think Ball was on a lot in his final year, I remember it being reported that he'd play for as little as $80-100K to keep Thomas.
Lynch was on around $250K as reported when he signed as a free agent, although he didn't play at all so his match payment component might make this figure lower.
Clarke wouldn't have been on huge money - maybe $100K + match payments and it's hard to guess for Maxwell but I wouldn't say a huge amount since he was no longer the captain $300-$400K (someone correct me if this is off the mark).
Lumumba, say $350K-ish
Was Hudson's role as a ruck coach excluded from the cap and paid out of the football department. Could they do this? If so he'd then probably be on base Rookie salary + payments under the cap - that's only $60,495.
That's not a lot really spare considering Goldy just signed for a slightly larger contract ~$325K, essentially taking Lumumba's salary. We also signed Broomhead, Kennedy, Grundy, Blair, Reid is on more coin as well. And Sidebottom.
Goldy's old wage plus Ball's would cover Greenwood.
It's little wonder we didn't match the $700K for Thomas last year - we couldn't. We have Pendles $900K, Cloke $900K, Swan $800K, Reid $500K, Brown $400K, Sidebottom $450K and Beams $400K all smashing our cap. That's 41% of the cap for 7 players. |
Would actually be nice to know where we're at with salary cap. I think you've inflated Pendles, Cloke and Swans contract. But it's all speculation. Think Cloke's the highest paid player at the club on $750-800K, Pendles and Swanny just below that. Swan gets $100+K off for veterans allowance. We don't need to know the individual contract values but it'd be nice to know what sort of % we've commited.
I personally think we've got 5-10% up our sleeve that we're saving for a specifically targeted player when we're up and about. It's not just about the players going this year. We've lost Jolly, Didak, Johnson, Shaw, Krakouer, Daisy the previous year. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Stinger wrote: | | GoWoodsmen wrote: | According to papers this morning if Beams stays we don't have room in the cap to accommodate Varcoe.
seems a little odd given the retirements of Q, Ball, Maxy and Huddo. We haven't signed that many contract extensions since those announcements were made - and certainly no big contracts, all young players etc. |
This seems right, particularly if we sign Greenwood at $450K per year as reported.
As good as it was to get games into our young brigade last year, by my calculations we paid Landon $135K, Frost $140K when for first year players and a Rookie they'd be looking at $60-100K. If Langdon plays say 20 games next year he'll make $185K that's a payrise of $50K that has to come from somewhere. It may not seem a lot but it does erode the TPPs.
I don't think Ball was on a lot in his final year, I remember it being reported that he'd play for as little as $80-100K to keep Thomas.
Lynch was on around $250K as reported when he signed as a free agent, although he didn't play at all so his match payment component might make this figure lower.
Clarke wouldn't have been on huge money - maybe $100K + match payments and it's hard to guess for Maxwell but I wouldn't say a huge amount since he was no longer the captain $300-$400K (someone correct me if this is off the mark).
Lumumba, say $350K-ish
Was Hudson's role as a ruck coach excluded from the cap and paid out of the football department. Could they do this? If so he'd then probably be on base Rookie salary + payments under the cap - that's only $60,495.
That's not a lot really spare considering Goldy just signed for a slightly larger contract ~$325K, essentially taking Lumumba's salary. We also signed Broomhead, Kennedy, Grundy, Blair, Reid is on more coin as well. And Sidebottom.
Goldy's old wage plus Ball's would cover Greenwood.
It's little wonder we didn't match the $700K for Thomas last year - we couldn't. We have Pendles $900K, Cloke $900K, Swan $800K, Reid $500K, Brown $400K, Sidebottom $450K and Beams $400K all smashing our cap. That's 41% of the cap for 7 players. |
That's a helpful analysis. Amongst other things, it serves to explain why Beams would want to move for an $800,000 per year offer and perhaps also why Collingwood might ultimately wish to do a deal for him with Brisbane. |
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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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Harvey
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
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We must have salary cap. We would have had cap space stored away for Daisy, Beams, Lumumba and Shaw. We may be potentially front loading a lot of contracts this year + last year so that we can make a big Free Agency play in 2015.
What I'm worried about is players like Varcoe, Greenwood, Young etc clogging up our salary cap space. I only hope the "not enough space for Varcoe" means that if Beams doesn't leave, we don't want to spend our warchest that we're building up on Varcoe.
If we don't actually have cap space, then we are certifiably incompetent in managing our salary cap |
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Coxy83
Joined: 13 Oct 2014
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| I've never been a Varcoe fan. I know the stats don't suggest he adds much value and there is a perception he's soft but I've watched a few Geelong games in 2014 and he was very impressive in all of those. Unrewarded running and some really clever contributions that I think will add a bit to our side. In the last few years losing Heater and now H has robbed our creative run from the backline. The loss of Daisy and Dids our creativity in the front half. I'm now a believer that Varcoe could help us in either role next year and will defy the list (Young, Russell etc) of duds we've recruited recently |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Harvey wrote: | We must have salary cap. We would have had cap space stored away for Daisy, Beams, Lumumba and Shaw. We may be potentially front loading a lot of contracts this year + last year so that we can make a big Free Agency play in 2015.
What I'm worried about is players like Varcoe, Greenwood, Young etc clogging up our salary cap space. I only hope the "not enough space for Varcoe" means that if Beams doesn't leave, we don't want to spend our warchest that we're building up on Varcoe.
If we don't actually have cap space, then we are certifiably incompetent in managing our salary cap |
Can't imagine that Young & Lynch types would be on huge $$$s, more likely that they're <$300K but still chews into the TPPs. Greenwood a different case but still only $400-450K. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Coxy83 wrote: | | I've never been a Varcoe fan. I know the stats don't suggest he adds much value and there is a perception he's soft but I've watched a few Geelong games in 2014 and he was very impressive in all of those. Unrewarded running and some really clever contributions that I think will add a bit to our side. In the last few years losing Heater and now H has robbed our creative run from the backline. The loss of Daisy and Dids our creativity in the front half. I'm now a believer that Varcoe could help us in either role next year and will defy the list (Young, Russell etc) of duds we've recruited recently |
Only time will tell but essentially costing us a high 2nd round pick under all the speculated arrangements given Dees should be coughing up pick 23 for H. You'd have to monitor players taken in the draft at 23 and beyond to see what we've bypassed. I'm guessing in a few years time we will rue the decision, think Mark LeCras, think Pavlich. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| jackcass wrote: | | Coxy83 wrote: | | I've never been a Varcoe fan. I know the stats don't suggest he adds much value and there is a perception he's soft but I've watched a few Geelong games in 2014 and he was very impressive in all of those. Unrewarded running and some really clever contributions that I think will add a bit to our side. In the last few years losing Heater and now H has robbed our creative run from the backline. The loss of Daisy and Dids our creativity in the front half. I'm now a believer that Varcoe could help us in either role next year and will defy the list (Young, Russell etc) of duds we've recruited recently |
Only time will tell but essentially costing us a high 2nd round pick under all the speculated arrangements given Dees should be coughing up pick 23 for H. You'd have to monitor players taken in the draft at 23 and beyond to see what we've bypassed. I'm guessing in a few years time we will rue the decision, think Mark LeCras, think Pavlich. |
I'm guessing you are right.
Bloody frustrating Daz..... 
IF the speculation is right (and it’s a big IF), Collingwood are losing their patience and taking stupid risks that are totally unnecessary.  |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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welcome travis varcoe.
irrespective of liking it or not he is now a collingwood player. time to support him.
_________________
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| John Wren wrote: | welcome travis varcoe.
irrespective of liking it or not he is now a collingwood player. time to support him. |
Premature, still nothing official on the AFL site. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| jackcass wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | welcome travis varcoe.
irrespective of liking it or not he is now a collingwood player. time to support him. |
Premature, still nothing official on the AFL site. |
you are still holding out, aren't you?! 
that glimmer of hope is diminishing.
_________________
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| John Wren wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | welcome travis varcoe.
irrespective of liking it or not he is now a collingwood player. time to support him. |
Premature, still nothing official on the AFL site. |
you are still holding out, aren't you?!
that glimmer of hope is diminishing. |
While that straw is still there, I'll clutch |
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