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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Australia
| Quote: | Following the Australian Human Rights Commission's report Same-Sex: Same Entitlements[2] and an audit of Commonwealth legislation, in 2009 the Australian Government introduced several reforms designed to equalise treatment for same-sex couples and same-sex couple families. The reforms amended 85 Commonwealth laws to eliminate discrimination against same-sex couples and their children in a wide range of areas. The reforms came in the form of two pieces of legislation, the Same-Sex Relationships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth Laws-General Law Reform) Act 2008 and the Same-Sex Relationships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth Laws-Superannuation) Act 2008.[3] These laws amended several other existing Commonwealth Acts to equalise treatment for same-sex couples and any children such couples may be raising with respect to the following areas:
Taxation
Superannuation
Health Insurance
Social Security
Aged care and child support
Immigration
Citizenship
Veterans' Affairs
For instance, with relation to social security and general family law, same-sex couples were not previously recognised as a couple for social security or family assistance purposes. A person who had a same-sex de facto partner was treated as a single person. The reforms ensured that same-sex couples were (for the first time under Australian law) recognised as a couple akin to opposite-sex partners. Consequently, a same-sex couple receives the same rate of social security and family assistance payments as an opposite-sex couple.[3] Such reforms however, do not completely equalise treatment for same-sex couples, who for instance, do not have the same rights and entitlements as married heterosexual couples do with respect to workers' compensation death benefits, pensions for the partners of Defence Force veterans and access to carer's leave.[4] Despite large equality of rights, Australia does not have a national registered partnership, civil union or same-sex relationship scheme. |
This pissed off many couples where one had kids and wasn't working. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Secondly, arguments with a democratic process to have your views -religious or otherwise - codified in law is not theocracy, David. |
I quite agree, though on the other hand I'm not sure you can necessarily call even a country like Iran a theocracy, either (the way I understand it, even though its laws are heavily influenced by Islamic teachings and the Ayatollah is kind of the equivalent of a British monarch, the elected government is hardly making policy based on Sharia Law alone). And that's Iran—when it comes to Algeria or Jordan or Pakistan or Malaysia, the Muslim influence on lawmaking is probably roughly on par with the Christian influence on Western European law until relatively recently. I'm not sure that you could say that Putin's Russia, for instance, is less of a "religious" state than many Muslim countries. |
Iran is an interesting country, which is showing signs of transition, perhaps, from theocracy, but I think most people would still regard it as a theocracy given that the Prime Minister takes executive orders for the President who must, by law, be an Ayatollah - a practising high-ranking cleric. In this, much depends upon practice rather than theory. As you implied, Britain is arguably a theocracy in theory, though assuredly not in practice.
And yes, a lot depends on what you mean by "relatively recently" ; i'd argue than what matters in this debate is now, not what happened 50 years ago, especially as it seems that the direction of change in large Islam-majority countries is toward Islam becoming more powerful, not less -Erdogan in Turkey being a good case in point.
Finally, if the Orth Church tries to wrest control from Putin, he'll kill it very, very quickly. Russia is reverting to its old traditions of autocracy, in which the Orthodox church long played a part - but not, I think, theocracy.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Mugwump wrote: |
Finally, if the Orth Church tries to wrest control from Putin, he'll kill it very, very quickly. Russia is reverting to its old traditions of autocracy, in which the Orthodox church long played a part - but not, I think, theocracy. |
Putin just turned the Gas off for Europe so I think he has other issues atm. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | All in all though, it's still just power and riches hungry evil men, doing shit stuff and using religion as an excuse. The disgusting way women are treated in the Muslim culture, that's just an excuse by the men to keep them down. |
Yes, power's the virus, religion the mosquito.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| 1061 wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: |
Finally, if the Orth Church tries to wrest control from Putin, he'll kill it very, very quickly. Russia is reverting to its old traditions of autocracy, in which the Orthodox church long played a part - but not, I think, theocracy. |
Putin just turned the Gas off for Europe so I think he has other issues atm. |
Launching huge sanctions at the country that supplies all the heating fuel for Europe in the middle of winter? What could've possibly gone wrong. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I didn't imply anything. |
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The Night 
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Lal Lal
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This board could benefit from reading the Koran, would help you to get a better perspective of what the muslim believes.
One simply has to read the core Islamic religious documents to answer these sorts of questions. I grabbed my three copies of the Koran and started going through the texts which explain these things.
‘Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.’ 2:191
‘Let not believers take the infidels as friends.’ 3:28
‘Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.’ 3:85
‘Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.’ 5:33
‘Believers, do not take Jews and Christians as your friends.’ 5:51
‘I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: strike off their heads and strike all their finger-tips off.’ 8:12
‘Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.’ 8:60
‘The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.’ 8:65
‘When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you find them.’ 9:5
‘Make war on the infidel.’ 9:14
‘The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.’ 9:28
‘The Jews and the Christians are perverse infidels; fight them.’ 9:29-30
‘Believers, make war on the infidels living in your midst.’ 9:123
‘Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.’ 22:19
‘Do not make peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.’ 47:4
Interesting lot there, and not old testament and new testament like the Judeo/Christian bible, where the new came to fulfill and change direction from the old. That is the Koran for todays thinking muslim, no wonder a large portion of their young men are runing to destruction.....sad.
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Who can it be now?????????????? |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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| The Night wrote: | This board could benefit from reading the Koran, would help you to get a better perspective of what the muslim believes.
One simply has to read the core Islamic religious documents to answer these sorts of questions. I grabbed my three copies of the Koran and started going through the texts which explain these things.
‘Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.’ 2:191
‘Let not believers take the infidels as friends.’ 3:28
‘Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.’ 3:85
‘Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.’ 5:33
‘Believers, do not take Jews and Christians as your friends.’ 5:51
‘I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: strike off their heads and strike all their finger-tips off.’ 8:12
‘Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.’ 8:60
‘The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.’ 8:65
‘When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you find them.’ 9:5
‘Make war on the infidel.’ 9:14
‘The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.’ 9:28
‘The Jews and the Christians are perverse infidels; fight them.’ 9:29-30
‘Believers, make war on the infidels living in your midst.’ 9:123
‘Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.’ 22:19
‘Do not make peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.’ 47:4
Interesting lot there, and not old testament and new testament like the Judeo/Christian bible, where the new came to fulfill and change direction from the old. That is the Koran for todays thinking muslim, no wonder a large portion of their young men are runing to destruction.....sad. |
One quote of the New testament pretty much disproves that old chestnut.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matthew 5:17
Let's not confuse the issue, both books are evil. It's how people choose to interpret their messages, often to suit an agenda that is the problem.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: |
One quote of the New testament pretty much disproves that old chestnut.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matthew 5:17
Let's not confuse the issue, both books are evil. It's how people choose to interpret their messages, often to suit an agenda that is the problem. |
Spot the difference.
| Quote: | John 8 New International Version (NIV)
8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” |
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The Night
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Lal Lal
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | The Night wrote: | This board could benefit from reading the Koran, would help you to get a better perspective of what the muslim believes.
One simply has to read the core Islamic religious documents to answer these sorts of questions. I grabbed my three copies of the Koran and started going through the texts which explain these things.
‘Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.’ 2:191
‘Let not believers take the infidels as friends.’ 3:28
‘Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.’ 3:85
‘Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.’ 5:33
‘Believers, do not take Jews and Christians as your friends.’ 5:51
‘I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: strike off their heads and strike all their finger-tips off.’ 8:12
‘Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.’ 8:60
‘The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.’ 8:65
‘When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you find them.’ 9:5
‘Make war on the infidel.’ 9:14
‘The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.’ 9:28
‘The Jews and the Christians are perverse infidels; fight them.’ 9:29-30
‘Believers, make war on the infidels living in your midst.’ 9:123
‘Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.’ 22:19
‘Do not make peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.’ 47:4
Interesting lot there, and not old testament and new testament like the Judeo/Christian bible, where the new came to fulfill and change direction from the old. That is the Koran for todays thinking muslim, no wonder a large portion of their young men are runing to destruction.....sad. |
One quote of the New testament pretty much disproves that old chestnut.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matthew 5:17
Let's not confuse the issue, both books are evil. It's how people choose to interpret their messages, often to suit an agenda that is the problem. |
Does nothing of the sort my friend for Romans Chapter 6 verses (14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. and 15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.) clearly show that we are not under the law but under grace. And Romans chapter 13, verses 8-10 show we can fulfill the law with love. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
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Who can it be now?????????????? |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| The books themselves aren't the issue. I mean the Jewish Torah is 5 of the craziest books of the Old Testament but I don't see Jews going around following Deuteronomy or Leviticus word for word. The problem with Islam is the literal and inviolable nature of their book coupled with the religion having been founded and expanded on conquest. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Oh, this is a fun game: let's compare the worst verses in the Koran with the nicest ones in the Bible!
TN, can you then explain why for centuries the Catholic Church opposed masturbation because of an anecdote in Genesis? Or why, to this day, same-sex marriage is opposed by Christians with verses from Leviticus?
As someone who was raised Christian, I'm utterly stumped as to why the Christian holy book, more or less the same one accepted by all Christian denominations, has always included the Old Testament if it's all supposedly rendered old hat by a few letters from Paul (which, by the way, were mostly about making Christianity more appealing to Gentiles; Hebrew Christians were still expected to be circumcised, eat Kosher food and so on). The God who demanded the wholesale genocide of Canaanite tribes is the same God whose son/incarnation gets a PR lift in the gospels, and the same God who promptly gets back to torturing humans in Revelation. But I dunno, maybe times were tough back then?
Just like Paul, of course, both Islam and Judaism have centuries of written analysis by religious scholars which reinterpret (and take the edge off the nasty bits of) the original books. Devout Muslims and Jews, like Christians, are encouraged to study this work and develop their understanding of their religion from it, not just the Koran/Torah/Bible. Of course, most casual observers just take what interests them and relates to their own lives and don't think too much about the rest. A combination of these factors helps explain why Muslims lived mostly in harmony with Jews and (Crusades aside) Christians in the Middle East for many centuries, despite the Koranic verses you list above.
Last edited by David on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Piethagoras' Theorem
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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To the Night and 1061, all you're doing is selecting quotes to suit your agenda, it's an easy game to play, we could go back and forth all day with this. It's these inconsistencies that lead to people turning away from religion. That's why I did. Both books are littered with evil, cruelty and senseless violence, you can't deny that. Mass murder and brutality, all in the name of both religions. You can't get stuck into one and discount another.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Now lets come back to 2015 shall we! |
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