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Bruno
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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rocketronnie
Is the idea that some people are proud of their unique culture foreign to you or something? This idea that we should strive to be all the same / that there should only be one global culture is getting tired.
You seem to be in the camp which says any form of unique cultural identity should be eschewed.
Hey, relative to other... Italians like arranchi, the Suisse go walking in summer, Russians drink Vodka, the French are socialists (at least those living in the 6th Arrondismont of Paris!) and the English read Great Expectations.... this is all okay you know!
Not all differences are good, but on the main they should be celebrated.
There is little wrong with unique cultures. |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| Bruno wrote: | rocketronnie
Is the idea that some people are proud of their unique culture foreign to you or something? This idea that we should strive to be all the same / that there should only be one global culture is getting tired.
You seem to be in the camp which says any form of unique cultural identity should be eschewed.
Hey, relative to other... Italians like arranchi, the Suisse go walking in summer, Russians drink Vodka, the French are socialists (at least those living in the 6th Arrondismont of Paris!) and the English read Great Expectations.... this is all okay you know!
Not all differences are good, but on the main they should be celebrated.
There is little wrong with unique cultures. |
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm referring to. I'm referring to simplistic ethnic stereotypes that exist in Australian popular culture and social belief systems which fuels our fear of 'The Other', which has been an Anglo-Australian cultural marker for many generations.
Of course some members of ethnic groups involve themselves in practices that conform in some ways to our stereotyped view of them. They also do many other things also that don't conform to the stereotype. Many other people in those groups don't conform to those stereotypes at all.
Of course ethno-cultural differences should be celebrated. Perpetuating simplistic stereotypes of such differences however is not celebrating - often it is denigrating instead. My point is that it is about time our culture grew up a bit and moved away from such stereotypes towards a richer view of other ethno-cultural groups.
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"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Bruno wrote: | pietillidie
You call me "ignorant", yet I am the one arguing that you can't throw a blanket over all people of colour and call them "the same".
Your the one throwing hundreds of cultures, nationalaties etc into the one basket and saying what affects one will affect the other... because they are all people of colour.
I never thought you'd align yourself with the Far Right like this.
The context in which you presented your map was totally ignorant too. Your basically suggesting that regardless of where in Africa the person left.... they are basically the same. You have shown no respect / understanding of the different cultures WITHIN Africa, let alone the different cultures which developed after people LEFT Africa over the course of 500 odd years.
You know, I actually don't even think YOU believe what you write in this thread. I think whats going on here is that believe you are conducting some sort of Socratic dialogue. You believe you are Socrates and the rest of us are mere Athenian youth! |
Did you read my previous post or have the science deniers trained you to keep posting the same misrepresentation over and over again while ignoring what the other person actually said. Once again, here it is for you:
| pietillidie wrote: | Humans don't have single simplistic identities and don't need to be genetic and cultural clones to identify with each other. Do you think black people living in white countries or former white colonies haven't experienced enough white racism to identify with each other? Do you think only white people are aware of their common ancestry?
Obviously this argument does not require offense being taken equally by the entirety of a culturally identical black population of African ancestry to be valid. This is not about trivial word tricks. It is plainly obvious that black people of African ancestry from many different countries often identify with each other. |
Let's see if you have the decency to refer to my actual view and not your deceitful misrepresentation of my view. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Bruno wrote: | | Stereotyping doesn't always involve sneering you know. |
Of course, agreed. But the argument I have put forward, perhaps incoherently, is that there is a subtext of symbols and associations triggered by the surface story which could easily cause those who identify with being a victim of that subtext storyline to take offense. Such discourses are the very essence of racism and should not be confused with inoffensive inaccurate cognitive generalisations that don't penalise others. Communication evolved to coordinate human relationships; racist communication damages them by claiming one party is superior to the other, sometimes explicitly, sometimes almost imperceptibly.
Last edited by pietillidie on Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | | rocketronnie wrote: | Yep the slave trade was the Africans' fault...
He's a fool JCMP? Revise that up to Ignorant Cretin more like... |
An enormous part of the slave trade was with African chiefs selling their captured enemies mainly from the interior to slave traders in exchange for guns, alcohol, cloth, metal etc. So while "the Africans" aren't to blame for their own slavery it was coastal tribal rivals who largely brought them to the coast for trade to European slavers from the interior.
What seems largely ignored in this debate (rather tangent) is that more has been done by Western civilizations (England in particular) to end the slave trade than was ever done to perpetuate it. What we get taught of the slave trade in schools is so Eurocentric as to be almost worthless. It perpetuates the "Noble Savage" stereotype of simple and ethical triballists being exploited by evil Europeans. Pie's main point regarding the complexity of the issue cuts both ways and it cuts very deeply. Slavery is a human problem, not a white/asian/arab/african problem and it exists anywhere and anytime that people of low moral fiber can make money with free labour.
As for racial identities the victims of Africa/America slavery be they Caribbeans or African-Americans no doubt have a common identity to a degree as both can trace ethnic identity to a common point however culturally they as peoples are entirely seperate.
People who want to lump every dark skinned person in together and tip toe around any possible racial slight may as well lump Celts in with Slavs and ensure they never possibly offend ME (A Welsh Celt) by perpetuating Slavic racial sterotypes (whatever they may be). |
[Hopefully I can respond your universalism and David's moral relativism when I get more time to work through the problem as I think the working answer will as usual be an ungainly mash up of universalism/particularism and free will/determinism]. |
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Bruno
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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rocketronnie.... fair enough (i.e. re. your last post in response to my post.
pietillidie... I think your over analysing is hindering your thinking on this topic. |
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OEP 
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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And all this is from a KFC add  
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| OEP wrote: | | And all this is from a KFC add |
At least the nutritionally bankrupt but oh so tasty chicken has provided some food for thought and not just a run to the toilet for change. |
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OEP
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| Wokko wrote: | | OEP wrote: | | And all this is from a KFC add |
At least the nutritionally bankrupt but oh so tasty chicken has provided some food for thought and not just a run to the toilet for change. |
You must be a hot and spicy fan too 
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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Kingswood
//
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| pietillidie wrote: | My first impression is that whoever made that ad needs to be fired for being socially illiterate, even if the discourse is largely American. We laugh at Americans for not knowing where Australia is on a map, but you would have to be pretty socially unaware not to be familiar with this. And even without any knowledge of US popular culture there are related discourses here which ought to trigger discomfort.
Moreover, how plain aloof would you have to be to overlay the fried chicken discourse on a stark juxtaposition of black and white peoples in the act of exaggerating their national identities at a sport which has in recent times been involved in a host of public racial kerfuffles? Talk about dumb and dumber.
It's funny how this connects to the debate we've been having in the other thread. When does ignorance and stupidity become negligence? The stupidity defense is wearing thin on me. In my view, unless impaired judgement is involved we once again have a degree of negligence.
But that debate aside, at the very best you'd fire those who produced and approved the ad for being professionally incompetent. Public communicators are supposed to be experts in the impacts of public communication FFS. And it's not just about KFC; how much does stupidity like this damage the national brand? The "racist Australia" discourse is growing by the day and is an increasing constraint on our ability to get things done in the world. Just another embarrassment for those engaged in international trade and diplomacy to deal with I guess. |
nice post. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| "Without your space helmet Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult" -- HAL. Sure, dumb and dumber sounds like a good topic. Only after I grow up. May I ask where you got view unless impaired judgement is involved we have a degree of negligence? I get . One more embarrassment for those engaged in international trade and diplomacy to deal with. |
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Bruno
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Not a bad article at all.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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totally agree with that article.....does that make me racist?
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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I did - its simplistic, reductionist and totally ignores that perpetuating simplistic ethnic stereotypes reinforces existing xenophobia.
_________________
"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
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