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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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I have repeatedly posted and discussed stats about his performances over his career in this and other threads. I posted again here only because yet another assertion was made that he hadn't been good for years. Contrary to that assertion, this time last year he had been starring, Collingwood had 8 wins and 3 losses, everyone (including me) was annoyed with Cloke's goal-kicking but he was actually in top-notch goal-kicking form (for him, with all his faults).
For goodness' sake, he won the Copeland Trophy kicking 39 goals in 25 games (last year, he kicked 34 in 17, even with his poor second half of the season) in a year Collinwood almost made the Grand Final and in 2010 they won the flag with him kicking 38 goals in 24 games.
The pressure on Cloke to kick goals has increased each year since 2011, as the production of the surrounding forwards has declined. I have been posting about this as a problem I perceive for over three years - see the "Scoring power" thread, presently on about page 3 of this forum. Cloke's poor form is a problem but it hasn't been a problem for as long as people want to pretend and, fwiw, I was identifying what I saw (and still see) as a much broader problem (basically, an absence of class in the forward line) during a season in which you describe Cloke as having dominated.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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BEAMER09 wrote: | Sad part but all this is we are concentrating on Cloke yet hardly any mention of our leaky defence and game plan.
Let's see what we dish up Monday.
Cloke is not the problem!!! |
He's not THE problem, but he's part of it, but he's not alone there's a few that need to lift themselves and that is why Cloke has been dropped. Clearly the club wants to help him find what's wrong putting him out there in the AFL right now where there's a heap of pressure on him isn't going to cure it.
Clearly the last time they got the response they wanted from him with him being pissed off at being in the VFL, well now he needs to harness that and get some form back. While he wasn't the worst last time out, we need goalkickers and if that means we have to struggle without Cloke then we must to get him right.
Only way to help him through a form slump is to play him in the VFL so he doesn't have as much pressure on him, and if he can get into a routine then he will be much better for it.
So no, Cloke is not THE problem, but one component of a wider issue within the team right now. _________________ Ðavâgé
https://www.facebook.com/davehardingphotography
https://www.facebook.com/Davage |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Location: Torino, Italy
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We will win without Cloke Monday. _________________ Buon Giorno |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Even if he puts in a few good weeks in the VFL, Cloke's problem will be that our other talls are performing better than him. If Witts plays well on Monday, there's another tall he'll be competing against for a spot. Then there's Darcy Moore to return in a few weeks. One thing Moore, Cox and White can do is perform well as relieving ruckmen. Cloke is nowhere near as flexible as he once was and his inability to take contested marks - which were once his bread and butter - is the final nail in his AFL coffin imo. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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It's just lucky that we've got so many good, productive forwards to take Cloke's place. It is a little surprising though, that our current season percentage betters only (in order from better percentage to worse) 1976, 2000, 1982, 1999, 1961, 2005, 1987 and 1942. All great years, in 2 of which we managed as many as 7 wins. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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He's certainly trying today _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Cloke Aish and brown all look good, they have had either 32 or 52 inside 50s for just 11 points. Maybe they stink, or maybe our defence is playing VFL
Oxley also getting a bit of it.
Sigh! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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I'm reasonably sure that Casey was on top of the ladder, TP. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002 Location: Springvale
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Cloke was great, Aish was sensational. Both I think will be considered for next week. _________________ Get back on top. |
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013 Location: Melbourne
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Great? Good, yes. What one should expect of an AFL veteran playing the lower league. He did well and showed some grit in the mud. But Great?
Aish finished well, but sensational? Really? No, not really.
Cloke needs to play better again for two or three more VFL games before he's considered for the AFL side.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, and let's not set Cloke up for another disappointing and mentally damaging return to the seniors.
Good to see Buckley out there giving him support during the breaks. |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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Woods wrote: | Great? Good, yes. What one should expect of an AFL veteran playing the lower league. He did well and showed some grit in the mud. But Great?
Aish finished well, but sensational? Really? No, not really.
Cloke needs to play better again for two or three more VFL games before he's considered for the AFL side.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, and let's not set Cloke up for another disappointing and mentally damaging return to the seniors.
Good to see Buckley out there giving him support during the breaks. |
Agree, you'd want to see Cloke have 3 consistently strong games before being considered again.
As for Aish, another 2 weeks like this and he'd be close too.
With any luck we should be able to field something that resembles our best 22 by round 16 |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Location: Torino, Italy
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themonk wrote: | Woods wrote: | Great? Good, yes. What one should expect of an AFL veteran playing the lower league. He did well and showed some grit in the mud. But Great?
Aish finished well, but sensational? Really? No, not really.
Cloke needs to play better again for two or three more VFL games before he's considered for the AFL side.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, and let's not set Cloke up for another disappointing and mentally damaging return to the seniors.
Good to see Buckley out there giving him support during the breaks. |
Agree, you'd want to see Cloke have 3 consistently strong games before being considered again.
As for Aish, another 2 weeks like this and he'd be close too.
With any luck we should be able to field something that resembles our best 22 by round 16 |
Aish has done enough in his stint in the VFL.
He needs to come back in and play the rest of the season in the AFL.
His upside is far better than many of our AFL guys. _________________ Buon Giorno |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002 Location: Springvale
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BOG in the wet against the top team was sensational. He was everywhere, tackled his guts out, threw his body in and he continually moved the ball into dangerous spots with chips, deft handballs and kicks. His long goal on the run was the icing on the cake. It wasn't Eddie Betts kicking 5 or Gary Ablett Jnr but kept in context it was a fantastic game. _________________ Get back on top. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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That's what we want Cam!
Go PIES! _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Location: Canberra
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Cam wrote: | BOG in the wet against the top team was sensational. He was everywhere, tackled his guts out, threw his body in and he continually moved the ball into dangerous spots with chips, deft handballs and kicks. His long goal on the run was the icing on the cake. It wasn't Eddie Betts kicking 5 or Gary Ablett Jnr but kept in context it was a fantastic game. |
He absolutely buried a scorpion in the 1st quarter, they needed a shovel to get him off the turf! _________________ "The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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