A Grundy thread

[Pies4shaw]

1. It doesn't matter what you imagine you saw. Go back and watch the game. I'm not interested in engaging with "artist's impressions" of what you think might have happened. I have described, goal by goal, how every goal in the last two games against the Eagles was scored by each side and committed that to writing, here, months ago. Watch the goals - in the cold, hard light of day - tell me what you don't agree with about my description - and why.

2. Weight of "opinion" is irrelevant. All that matters, in my view, is being correct about the detail, item by item.

3. As for your hyperbole about decisive centre clearances, have a look in that same game at Grundy tapping it straight to where Treloar, who allows himself to be bodied out of it by Kelly, is supposed to run at the start of the second quarter. The ball goes straight into the Eagles forward line - one kick out of the centre, a mark and a Kennedy goal. How is it that Treloar starts at the centre bounce alongside Kelly but is 3 metres behind when Kelly reaches the ball? A person who didn't understand how appalling Treloar's reading of that play and feeble physical effort was might reach the mistaken conclusion that Grundy "hit it down Kelly's throat". He didn't. He put it precisely where Treloar was supposed to be - on the move and gone - but Treloar wasn't good enough even to put pressure on his opponent after his opponent read the play better. Meanwhile, Shuey blocked Adams from the path of the ball, so Kelly got it entirely uncontested. If you watch carefully, you can see Treloar's reaction as Kelly beats him - well before Kelly gets to the ball. Treloar has written all over his face that he knows he has just been "pantsed" (he even throws back his head in dismay). A proper mid (eg, Swan) gets that ball, the ball flies into our forward line, a goal is kicked and everyone says "how good was that tap?" Instead, everyone wants to ask how Grundy could tap that ball to Kelly. Go and watch it. Tell me why I'm wrong.

4. I watch rubbish like that and think "We've got to get rid of Treloar, he's a waste of space". Then, the Club cuts its losses. I think "Thank goodness". Other people who prefer to imagine what a lightning-quick midfield runner worth $900,000 might do (rather than watching what Treloar does do) say "If Grundy wasn't paid so much, we could have kept Treloar". Go figure.

[eddiesmith]

[Pies4shaw]

Why don't you have a look at the data and work it out for yourself?

[Big T]

Pies4shaw, if you were coach, what would you ask Grundy to do differently at present to maximise his impact and dominance ?

[Big T]

One thing I will say is at least Grundy is robust and rarely injured. That's a rare commodity for an a grader at Collingwood

[Rd10.1998_11.1#36]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

[qldmagpie67]

I’m a bit each way with Grundy at times but I know he’s a talented footballer who at his best is a match winner or game changer

Let’s separate the 2 trains of thought

1. He’s paid a million a season which is top echelon of earners
It’s not his fault he accepted our offer and at the time I said time will tell if it was a wise investment
But with accepting that sort of money there comes very high expectations from supporters and I would hazard a guess team mates as well
Grundy doesn’t help his own cause when he says things like “football doesn’t define me as a person” that’s fair he’s more than a footballer he’s a person and has many varied interests off the field which is fine also
What I think gets under people’s skin is he doesn’t seem overly concerned with his own personal performance or the team’s performance as a whole
By nature he seems a little emotionless win lose or draw and that can be conceived as not caring
There’s rumours (and his been named in the media) that he has issues with the Treloar departure and the coach
Now maybe (and we can only guess) that he was either very close to Treloar or his concerned his contract may end up the same way
Whichever or whatever the issue is between him and the coach/club it needs to be sorted

2. His hit outs don’t equate to wins and losses
Now P4S sees it as the mids fault that they didn’t take advantage of Grundy’s dominance in the ruck. Others see it as Grundy doesn’t actually use his dominance to his mids advantage
Honestly it’s likely a bit of both
I’ve seen mids completely miss or fumble a clear tap to their advantage and lose the clearance but I’ve also seen our mids in the clear and the tap go in the opposite direction
What I have never understood is the tapping the ball at his own feet
Whether it’s a coaching/game plan direction or Grundy being unable to tap it to where we have numbers is unknown
P4S highlights the amount of clearances he gets but this is a product of where the ball lands which is at his own feet
Other clubs have realised this and they take front position on our mids at centre bounces and generally get 1st use of the ball
Take Adams away who is truly a beast at clearances and stoppages and we actually don’t have any other player who gets down and dirty to win the ball
Sidey Pendles Treloar etc all do there best work outside the contests so playing them since is actually counter productive

The changes in game plans by teams without a dominate ruckman means they basically sit back and shark our ball
There’s been ideas like just smash it anywhere outside to stop it but all that would achieve is giving outside runners first use of the ball and we don’t have any speed outside to speak of either
Not having Adams this weekend is going to show how weak the remainder of the clearance team is
I’m guessing we will get a absolute flogging around the stoppages and bounces and it won’t be because we don’t have a competitive ruckman
Maybe we should ruck Cameron and play Grundy as the worlds largest midfielder

[PyreneesPie]

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

^ lol what a calamity!!!

[Magpietothemax]

^Qld, great post. Lays out the issues very systematically and logically. It also explains clearly why we are going to be in dire straits in the absence of Tay Adams, and might have to adopt some radical maneuvre like playing Grundy as an extra midfielder (as PP has advocated for a long time). I think now i am definitely leaning towards selecting Cameron for this game against WCE. It gives alot of options and flexibility in the use of Grundy.

[Ronnie McKeowns boots]

[K]

[K]

[K]

[K]

Wayne Carey has ideas on 'How Magpies can make the most of Grundy'.
Sadly, his solution won't work 'cos it's based on a false belief.

Says Wayne:

"On the one hand there’s Nic Naitanui, who’s never been a massive ball-winner, but is the most influential tap-ruckman in the game.

Despite his ability to pull off the spectacular I wasn’t sold on Nic Nat early in his career, but after watching him live you can’t help but appreciate his massive impact.

It’s not only the way he brings his teammates into the game around the contest, but also his follow-up work.
...

Even after losing best-and-fairest winner Taylor Adams to injury, and Adam Treloar, among others, during the trade period, the Magpies still plenty of midfield options.

They don’t need Grundy to be an accumulator as much as they need him to be more of an aerial presence."


His solution:

"One example of how Collingwood can change things up is at the Western Bulldogs. With Stefan Martin taking much of the ruck duties, it has allowed Tim English to float forward and impact the game as a key target. ...

But while English clearly has a great pair of hands, you can’t tell me Grundy isn’t a better mark. So, the challenge I have for Brodie Grundy is to hit the scoreboard. ...

Why can’t Mason Cox ... spend more time in the ruck, much like Martin, allowing the more mobile Grundy to be dangerous inside 50?"

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/getting-a-score-on-the-board-how-magpies-can-make-the-most-of-grundy-20210415-p57jk2.html


Huh? Grundy is incapable of taking a contested mark. I can't remember seeing him take a truly contested mark in his entire career. So he can't be a better mark than English. That's why WB can push English forward, but we can't push Grundy forward.