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woftam 
I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic
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| Dave The Man wrote: | Well people said that about port in 2011 and 2012 but in 2 years they have come one of the best team’s in the Comp.
It can Change Quickly when you get it right |
It changed for Port the moment Hinkley walked in the door. That scenario wont play out for us. Bucks has already been there 3 years. More than anything else we need a game plan change in my opinion. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I don't want to turn this I to a coach bashing post. I have said many times Buckley gets 2015 for sure and hopefully he achieves results and gets to move forward with this group he has assembled.
But I posted before I had huge concerns over his man management style. As a player he was singled minded and determined to succeed and didn't care to much who he got offside along the way. Yes he is media savvy and yes he speaks wonderfully in interviews but can he relate to many different personalty types inside the team.
Can he get them to believe in his plan the way he does ?
Can he get them all singing from the same hymn book ?
That to me is the biggest issue. Can Buckley look at a player of less ability than he had and encourage him and mold him into the player the team needs ?
I've said it before his biggest strength as a player maybe his Achilles heal as a coach
As for leadership it's not easily taught but I see guys like Sidey Beams Cloke Reid Goldy Brown being vital assistants in this process. They all have a job to do in supporting Pendles on and off the field. |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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Is there any actual evidence that Beams is unhappy at the club?
Goldsack wants to stay and has accepted limited pay before
Ben Reid is not as fragile as Nial and many Nicks posters have made out
Brown back next year provides experience down back
Lynch and Hudson did not contribute to the AFL side but provided experience for the VFL side and everyone knew they would retire
Balls body is shot a terrible loss but we have Adams and Thomas as replacements.
The comparison with the expansion sides is idiotic they have most of their list given to them by the AFL and chose long term gain at the expense of importing experience. The club has experience and it was injuries not list management that has been the problem this year.
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I'm not sure what he nailed. He's basically regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Bucks has already said. We are very young and will not be competing seriously for another 2-3 years.
Buckley's made it clear that we are no longer focusing on the now. We're going deeper into a rebuild than I think anyone expected we would two years ago. |
Yes, but why did we require such a hard rebuild?
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- Side By Side - |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| neil wrote: | Is there any actual evidence that Beams is unhappy at the club?
Goldsack wants to stay and has accepted limited pay before
Ben Reid is not as fragile as Nial and many Nicks posters have made out
Brown back next year provides experience down back
Lynch and Hudson did not contribute to the AFL side but provided experience for the VFL side and everyone knew they would retire
Balls body is shot a terrible loss but we have Adams and Thomas as replacements.
The comparison with the expansion sides is idiotic they have most of their list given to them by the AFL and chose long term gain at the expense of importing experience. The club has experience and it was injuries not list management that has been the problem this year. |
the comparison with the expansions sides is not as idiotic as you might think. he is right in saying that these are the clubs we are essentially competing against and this is due to the age profile of our list. in 2-4 years time they will be the ones who should be banging on the door of the top four. i expect us to be there too along with essendon, west coast and north, even brisbane. the western welfare should be in that group but if they don't find a forward line they are unlikely to go anywhere.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| No one else expects us to be there along with essendon west coast and north brisbane. |
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King Malta 
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| slangman wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | I'm not sure what he nailed. He's basically regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Bucks has already said. We are very young and will not be competing seriously for another 2-3 years.
Buckley's made it clear that we are no longer focusing on the now. We're going deeper into a rebuild than I think anyone expected we would two years ago. |
Yes, but why did we require such a hard rebuild? |
Premiers in 2010, bridesmaids in 2011, 4th (or maybe 3rd? my memory fails me) in 2012 and 6th I think it was in 2013.
Clearly, at the end of 2013, Buckley and the coaching panel looked at our list and made the decision that a lot of the older players we possessed (the likes of Didak, Ball, Heater, Jolly etc) would probably not be able to guide us to another flag and as a result a quick, hard rebuild was required.
The rebuild probably needs to be this hard in their eyes because they want the fruits to ripen whilst players like Pendles and Beams are still in their prime and are able to contribute strongly each week.
I think that a lot of Collingwood supporter's expectations of a dynasty were a little too hopeful. Out of the list that we had we got 3 very competitive years (were clearly the second best in 2011 and injuries derailed 2012) before age and the loss of a few key players from that premiership side (Davis, Presti, Brown) started to show. If we had of kept Heater, Didak and Jolly into this season, would we be any better off long term? I don't think so, and we certainly wouldn't have won the flag.
I can understand what they're trying to do, see the logic behind it and agree with the direction they're taking. Will it work? Who knows, nothing is a guarantee in sport.
Last edited by King Malta on Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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I'd rather have a list that's 'too young' than hang onto a bunch of guys that are 'too old'. The future is bright.
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'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| King Malta wrote: | | slangman wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | I'm not sure what he nailed. He's basically regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Bucks has already said. We are very young and will not be competing seriously for another 2-3 years.
Buckley's made it clear that we are no longer focusing on the now. We're going deeper into a rebuild than I think anyone expected we would two years ago. |
Yes, but why did we require such a hard rebuild? |
Premiers in 2010, bridesmaids in 2011, 4th (or maybe 3rd? my memory fails me) in 2012 and 6th I think it was in 2013.
Clearly, at the end of 2013, Buckley and the coaching panel looked at our list and made the decision that a lot of the older players we possessed (the likes of Didak, Ball, Heater, Jolly etc) would probably not be able to guide us to another flag and as a result a quick, hard rebuild was required.
The rebuild probably needs to be this hard in their eyes because they want the fruits to ripen whilst players like Pendles and Beams are still in their prime and are able to contribute strongly each week.
I think that a lot of Collingwood supporter's expectations of a dynasty were a little too hopeful. Out of the list that we had we got 3 very competitive years (were clearly the second best in 2011 and injuries derailed 2012) before age and the loss of a few key players from that premiership side (Davis, Presti, Brown) started to show. If we had of kept Heater, Didak and Jolly into this season, would we be any better off long term? I don't think so, and we certainly wouldn't have won the flag.
I can understand what they're trying to do, see the logic behind it and agree with the direction they're taking. Will it work? Who knows, nothing is a guarantee in sport. |
That's an excellent post. The loss of elite personnel since 2010, with the possible exception of Heater, has been inevitable and it was bound to see us on the slide. Davis, Didak, Thomas, Jolly, Presti and Johnson, plus the 2014 slide of Swan, is irreplaceable. I have my doubts about Buckley, but this alone, let alone the injury list, is a serious mitigation of the poor relative performance in 2013 and 2014
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Two more flags before I die! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| slangman wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | I'm not sure what he nailed. He's basically regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Bucks has already said. We are very young and will not be competing seriously for another 2-3 years.
Buckley's made it clear that we are no longer focusing on the now. We're going deeper into a rebuild than I think anyone expected we would two years ago. |
Yes, but why did we require such a hard rebuild? |
Which of the players who have left the club would you have liked to retain? |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Damien wrote: | | I'd rather have a list that's 'too young' than hang onto a bunch of guys that are 'too old'. The future is bright. |
Agree. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| King Malta wrote: | | slangman wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | I'm not sure what he nailed. He's basically regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Bucks has already said. We are very young and will not be competing seriously for another 2-3 years.
Buckley's made it clear that we are no longer focusing on the now. We're going deeper into a rebuild than I think anyone expected we would two years ago. |
Yes, but why did we require such a hard rebuild? |
Premiers in 2010, bridesmaids in 2011, 4th (or maybe 3rd? my memory fails me) in 2012 and 6th I think it was in 2013.
Clearly, at the end of 2013, Buckley and the coaching panel looked at our list and made the decision that a lot of the older players we possessed (the likes of Didak, Ball, Heater, Jolly etc) would probably not be able to guide us to another flag and as a result a quick, hard rebuild was required.
The rebuild probably needs to be this hard in their eyes because they want the fruits to ripen whilst players like Pendles and Beams are still in their prime and are able to contribute strongly each week.
I think that a lot of Collingwood supporter's expectations of a dynasty were a little too hopeful. Out of the list that we had we got 3 very competitive years (were clearly the second best in 2011 and injuries derailed 2012) before age and the loss of a few key players from that premiership side (Davis, Presti, Brown) started to show. If we had of kept Heater, Didak and Jolly into this season, would we be any better off long term? I don't think so, and we certainly wouldn't have won the flag.
I can understand what they're trying to do, see the logic behind it and agree with the direction they're taking. Will it work? Who knows, nothing is a guarantee in sport. |
Well said. Of the guys who have left, only Heater and Daisy are playing anything like consistent footy. Dawes and Wellers struggling. Lots of players just reached their use by date prematurely and the right decision was to move them on. |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| jackcass wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | | slangman wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | I'm not sure what he nailed. He's basically regurgitated a bunch of stuff that Bucks has already said. We are very young and will not be competing seriously for another 2-3 years.
Buckley's made it clear that we are no longer focusing on the now. We're going deeper into a rebuild than I think anyone expected we would two years ago. |
Yes, but why did we require such a hard rebuild? |
Premiers in 2010, bridesmaids in 2011, 4th (or maybe 3rd? my memory fails me) in 2012 and 6th I think it was in 2013.
Clearly, at the end of 2013, Buckley and the coaching panel looked at our list and made the decision that a lot of the older players we possessed (the likes of Didak, Ball, Heater, Jolly etc) would probably not be able to guide us to another flag and as a result a quick, hard rebuild was required.
The rebuild probably needs to be this hard in their eyes because they want the fruits to ripen whilst players like Pendles and Beams are still in their prime and are able to contribute strongly each week.
I think that a lot of Collingwood supporter's expectations of a dynasty were a little too hopeful. Out of the list that we had we got 3 very competitive years (were clearly the second best in 2011 and injuries derailed 2012) before age and the loss of a few key players from that premiership side (Davis, Presti, Brown) started to show. If we had of kept Heater, Didak and Jolly into this season, would we be any better off long term? I don't think so, and we certainly wouldn't have won the flag.
I can understand what they're trying to do, see the logic behind it and agree with the direction they're taking. Will it work? Who knows, nothing is a guarantee in sport. |
Well said. Of the guys who have left, only Heater and Daisy are playing anything like consistent footy. Dawes and Wellers struggling. Lots of players just reached their use by date prematurely and the right decision was to move them on. |
Alternatively would could have retained our aging players and those that were adversely affecting our culture like St Kilda have and be fighting it out with them for the wooden spoon.
I hade a friend on the weekend celebrating the fact that the A'ints will be getting some great draft picks. If that is the sum total of achievement for the year he is easily pleased. |
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Damien
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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We made 2 GF's in a row with a group containing many veterans. Dropped out of finals, picked up new youngsters and then got back in to feature in finals 8 years running. It can turn very quickly. To suggest we are facing a long time in the wilderness is laughable.
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'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Damien wrote: | | We made 2 GF's in a row with a group containing many veterans. Dropped out of finals, picked up new youngsters and then got back in to feature in finals 8 years running. It can turn very quickly. To suggest we are facing a long time in the wilderness is laughable. |
Agree. We were 8-3 and in the top 4 after what many posters on here were predicting was a killer first 11 rounds, particularly the first 7. Maxwell and Ball are currently the only players departing who contributed to that position. And we hadn't even seen Reid at that stage. We got there largely on the performances of a lot of kids. They'll all be better prepared in 2015 along with Seedsman, Karnezis, Sinclair, and Freeman. |
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