Buyers Remorse

Use this forum for non-Collingwood related footy topics that don't relate specifically to any of the other forums. For non-footy sporting topics please use Nick's Sports Bar and for non-sporting topics please use the Victoria Park Tavern.

Moderator: bbmods

User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

^ That's because the coaches needed to give all the other ruckmen votes for their stellar matches. We all know it's a ruckman's award.
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

Another loafing effort from Grundy - just a lazy 30 disposals, 50 hitouts, 9 clearances, 8 score involvements and a goal assist. The Swans won centre clearances 19 to 4! He's probably going to get in big trouble for taking coaches' votes off Heeney.

The Fox commentators called him "the undoubted best recruit of the season" and said he was "having a massive influence" on the dominant season of the best team in the competition.

They're talking rubbish, of course - McLean's 37 AF point game (7 hitouts, 4 kicks) papered over the Grundy cracks, again.
User avatar
Big T
Posts: 10023
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:31 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Post by Big T »

I’m really happy for Brody but not unhappy with having Cameron, our premiership ruck.

Things happen for a reason.
Buon Giorno
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Re: Buyers Remorse

Post by Pies4shaw »

^ I’m also happy with the premiership - but the entire premise of this thread is that he’s not an AFL-standard ruckman. Here is the OP, just by way of reminder:
qldmagpie67 wrote:Watched the Sydney Brisbane game last night
Big “O” was so dominate over Grundy it was actually sad to watch
The swans looked so much better with Lanhams in the ruck
Grundy looked disinterested often trialing more than 20m behind his opponent when the ball was moving either forward or back
Lanhams played less than 40% of the game time but his impact and output was over double grundys
Sydney will be shaking there heads now wondering what they’ve done
Hope they remembered to put a clause in to oust him after 1 season because come about round 10 they’ll have to do a Melbourne and just play him in the VFL and look for someone to take him off there hands
His best chance of getting game time is hope Lanhams and McLean both come down with injuries
The only “shaking their heads” the Swans would be doing about now would be shaking their heads in disbelief that Melbourne could get rid of such a great ruckman - and keep a guy that’s not even half as good.

The comparison with Ladhams in a pre-season warm-up is very funny, of course. After 13 actual games in 2024, Grundy has 425 hitouts from 13 matches, while Ladhams has just the 0 hitouts from 0 games - he hasn’t cracked it yet for a senior game. It is, of course, still completely true to say that Ladhams has been twice as good as Grundy in every premiership season game Ladhams has played in 2924.
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

Just the 8 votes for Grundy this week.

Robbed, of course - they gave 10 to the guy whio kicked 9 goals from the 12,000 inside 50s generated by the phenomenal rate of centre clearance victories.

He now has 34 coaches' votes for the season. Only one Collingwood player (Nick Daicos) has managed more than he has. Only one ruckman has managed more than he has - Gawn has 50 but he didn't get any of them in the Melbourne-Swans game (Grundy thrashed him and got 9). No ruckman other than Grundy has received a coach's vote in any game Grundy has played in this year.

If you were picking a ruckman on 2024 form to win a game of football, Grundy is the only one you'd consider (if you had a brain).
qldmagpie67
Posts: 5834
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:41 pm

Post by qldmagpie67 »

Except the All Australian selectors who stated at the recent meeting
Gawn is the lock for AA ruck
They then nominated 4 other rucks including Grundy who are “watches” they also nominated Cameron as well
Once you realise Gawn is by far a better player than Grundy the sooner you can enjoy his talents
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

^ And he might be the all-Australian ruck, too - he's just useless against Grundy - and has been for a decade. Go back and watch them go head to head this year. There are reasons the Swans are thrashing everyone this season - and everyone (except you) knows one of the main ones is Grundy.
qldmagpie67
Posts: 5834
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:41 pm

Post by qldmagpie67 »

No the main reason is Heeney is now playing as a mid not a HF
He Warner Rowbottom Gulden are the reasons
Grundy is merely a passenger with a great seat to watch it all unfold
Go and look at the swans last season when when Hickey was ruck and Heeney was playing as a mid it was the same results
So be it Grundy or Hickey or any other tall player who at a minimum can jump and make a contest have the same impact on the swans success
Right now as it stands Gawn is a premiership player Cameron is a premiership player Grundy isn’t and it’s likely to stay that way if Heeney goes down injured
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

^ Gawn's premiership? - he only had to ruck against English (is Grundy yet up to 30 Brownlow votes against English?) - and, in any event, as I reported on elsewhere, Treloar was Melbourne's secret weapon in that game: Bont finally had to bench himself with exhaustion in the third quarter and they put Treloar into the centre square, whereupon Melbourne scored 5 goals in less than two elapsed minutes of playing time. Poor Grundy had Treloar (allegedly) playing with him in 2018 and 2019 - and Grundy never stood a chance.

Cause and effect is a funny thing, of course - Grundy arrives at the Swans and dominates the ruck and, lo and behold, all the Swans' midfielders (well, except Adams, who is still a fumbly second-rater) suddenly look like all-time greats.

Thus, people who don't hate him are publishing articles like this:
AFL Media’s Josh Gabelich has hailed Sydney ruckman Brodie Grundy as the recruit of the year and an All-Australian to this point of the season at Round 14.

Grundy moved to the Swans in October for pick No. 46 and a future second-round selection after spending one year at Melbourne having been traded by Collingwood the year prior.

The ruckman’s addition has no doubt contributed to Sydney’s brilliant start to the year as they sit 12-1 at Round 14 and Grundy was huge in the Swans’ 67-109 win over the Crows on Saturday night as he helped himself to 31 disposals, 49 hitouts and nine clearances.

Gabelich labelled the 30-year-old as far and away the best player to move clubs during the last trade period and expects him to earn a third All-Australian blazer five years on from his last while playing for Collingwood.

“I've been keeping a really close eye on him this year and I think he's the clear recruit of the year after Round 14,” Gabelich said on SEN’s Crunch Time.

“I think he's far and away better than any other player that moved clubs in October and I now think that he's the All-Australian Ruckman.

“Max Gawn clearly had that spot for probably the first 10 to 12 games, but I reckon in the accumulation of what he's doing and the impact he's had on Heeney, Warner, Gulden and that midfield … a lot of them are having career years and I think Brodie Grundy is a key reason why.

“He had a dominant performance last night against Adelaide … what he did just sort of summed up his year to date, he was dominant in the air, he was dominant around the ground and he impacted scores.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/06/16/ ... ustralian/

The "all-Australian" ruckman will be picked based on how they perform, irrespective of the quality of the opposition and Gawn might get the nod for his performances against the potatoes amongst AFL ruck ranks - but you couldn't possibly pick Gawn ahead of Grundy if you looked at their head to head record. Grundy is so far ahead of Gawn (and has been for 6 years) that it beggars belief that you would rehash such silliness.

Whichever way you look at it - and however you try to spin it, "Recruit of the Year" is a bit of a way from "Buyer's Remorse", don't you agree?
qldmagpie67
Posts: 5834
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:41 pm

Post by qldmagpie67 »

Your not comparing apples with apples
This Sydney midfield doesn’t contain Mills and Parker where past midfield did
As I stated before this stunning form line didn’t start with Grundy’s arrival it started the later part of the 2023 season when they moved Heeney full time into the midfield and the continuation in growth of Gulden (a winger who’s performance isnt influenced by a ruck)
Gawn is universally recognised as the best ruck in the competition and has been for several years by past players, past coaches and media scribes.
Surely they all can’t be wrong and you right
Ask yourself this question
When it was obvious Collingwood wanted Grundy gone how many clubs come knocking on our door ?
1 and 1 only and we had to pay them to take him and get basically nothing back in return
12 months later that same club then gave him away also paying a large chunk of his salary to get him off there books
I will say right now with Sydney paying around $400/$450k a year he’s good value for money because at $1 million a season he was a bust
Longmire has publicly said he doesn’t see value in ruckmen all he needs is a big bloke to make a contest and then let skilled players go to work which is exactly what’s happening right now with his game plan
Also Sydney this season have used 26 players and 16 have played every game
There’s a lot to be said for continuity
User avatar
Magpietothemax
Posts: 7939
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:05 pm

Post by Magpietothemax »

Very good analysis Qld.. I agree with your assessment of why Grundy is doing so well with Sydney. They have a superb group of mids who have not suffered any major serial injuries.
I have always believed Brodie is a great player, but after viewing his impact at Melboune compared with that at Sydney it is clear that it is much more to do with midfielders than an individual ruckman.
Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins
User avatar
Magpietothemax
Posts: 7939
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:05 pm

Post by Magpietothemax »

qldmagpie67 wrote:Your not comparing apples with apples
This Sydney midfield doesn’t contain Mills and Parker where past midfield did
As I stated before this stunning form line didn’t start with Grundy’s arrival it started the later part of the 2023 season when they moved Heeney full time into the midfield and the continuation in growth of Gulden (a winger who’s performance isnt influenced by a ruck)
Gawn is universally recognised as the best ruck in the competition and has been for several years by past players, past coaches and media scribes.
Surely they all can’t be wrong and you right
Ask yourself this question
When it was obvious Collingwood wanted Grundy gone how many clubs come knocking on our door ?
1 and 1 only and we had to pay them to take him and get basically nothing back in return
12 months later that same club then gave him away also paying a large chunk of his salary to get him off there books
I will say right now with Sydney paying around $400/$450k a year he’s good value for money because at $1 million a season he was a bust
Longmire has publicly said he doesn’t see value in ruckmen all he needs is a big bloke to make a contest and then let skilled players go to work which is exactly what’s happening right now with his game plan
Also Sydney this season have used 26 players and 16 have played every game
There’s a lot to be said for continuity
Very good analysis Qld.. I agree with your assessment of why Grundy is doing so well with Sydney. They have a superb group of mids who have not suffered any major serial injuries.
I have always believed Brodie is a great player, but after viewing his impact at Melboune compared with that at Sydney it is clear that it is much more to do with midfielders than an individual ruckman.
Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins
qldmagpie67
Posts: 5834
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:41 pm

Post by qldmagpie67 »

Max Grundy is a decent player I’ve never said he wasn’t but the way he’s built up by P4S you would think he’s the greatest ruck to ever play the game.
He’s not close to that.
Gawn season in season out has been head and shoulders above any other big man going around.
Take Petracca away and he doesn’t have a star studded midfield at his disposal
Viney is a workhouse type Oliver is flakey and the others who rotate through are at best solid triers
Sydney found out later part of last season putting Heeney on the ball made them a much better side
He had a entire preseason to work on his craft and fitness and combination
Add to that they’ve had next to no one injured for long periods
Sooner or later injury strikes every team
If they get there fair share in the later part of the season they’ll come back to the pack in a hurry
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

qldmagpie67 wrote:Grundy is a decent player I’ve never said he wasn’t ... he’s the greatest ruck to ever play the game.
Edited that for you. :lol:

You can't change the goalposts, by the way - your thread alleges "buyer's remorse" on the Swans' part and, along the way, you've asserted that guys who can't get a game, were never competent footballers or don't play in the ruck (and, in some cases, all 3) are better than Grundy. The proof is there, if you're smart enough to consider it: Grundy has thrashed most ruckmen again this season, including Gawn and English (both as usual), and been beaten by none. Moreover, he's warming up and getting back towards full fitness, running out games better and better. Given his power in the physical contest at ground level, no-one who wants to win a Grand Final would pick another ruckman, if they didn't have to. Obviously, Melbourne didn't want to win - and, yes, their Finals record confirms that.
User avatar
Pies4shaw
Posts: 34500
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm

Post by Pies4shaw »

Only the 6 AFLCA votes for this week's thrashing. It's really just a coincidence that there are 3 Sydney mids on the leaderboard, along with the dominant ruckman giving them all an armchair ride. Once again, the opposition ruckmen didn't get a look in. Thor only had 31 hitouts, 28 disposals, 5 tackles, 4 clearances, 13 contested possessions and a goal assist this week.
Post Reply