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Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 6:13 pm
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Magpietothemax wrote:


Well, you gave a pretty clear answer. In your view, there is no right to protest. If the police tell you to leave, then you must do so - otherwise get your just deserts (rubber bullets).

Comparing your front garden with students' encampment on a university campus is absurd.


Stop trying to tell me what I think. I know, you don't.

A peaceful protest doesn't involve building a barricaded camp on someone else's property and daring the authorities to remove you. You want to push hard and poke the bear, cop it when it comes back the other way.

I find it humorous that immature idealistic idiots think they're going to change public opinion by protesting and putting juvenile demands on the organisations.

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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 6:31 pm
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What'sinaname wrote:
So, how's Hamas going deciding on whether to release hostages to save Palestinian lives? I hear Yahya Sinwar is using hostages as a human shield and wants to protect his arse rather than save his "people".


https://x.com/AdityaMandagie/status/1786988492339454398

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 11:17 pm
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Far-left groups, like far-right groups, get played like a fiddle because they make themselves really dumb with their naive rage. But no level of juvenile dimness and naivete weighs on the only point that matters here: you can't oppress, kill and starve millions of innocent people.

The protesters are just dills being used to deflect from the appalling subjugation and now forcible starvation of average Mo Palestinians. Even more sickening, some huge percentage of the population is under 15, meaning hundreds of thousands of children are literally being physically and psychiatrically tortured, because that's what mass death, destruction and starvation means in reality.

Absolute nothing Hamas does or has done, no matter how similarly repugnant, whether as religious mental cases, degraded outcasts or Iran/Russian proxies changes what is being done to innocent people.

WiaN, you're wilfully being dissociative and denying your own smarts if you think anything more than a minor fraction of Nutteryahoo's actions have been carried out unwillingly, his hand forced. Even if we generously grant the creep an absurd 50% justification for starving children to near-death, he deserves to be hanged on the same international gallows as Hamas and their sponsors.

You don't take up a satirical lobotomised psychopath persona just to win internet arguments. What is wrong with you? Do you find mass death and destruction entertaining, like a board game or something? Look, we all divorce ourselves from the true reality of grim things, but this horror is still happening, right now.

Every single vile creep on the planet, from Bush, Cheney, Trump, Putin and Netanyahu to Stalin has mastered the art of grievance deflection, as if they are being pushed into mass killing because some fool is breaking windows on a campus somewhere. These are entry-level skills for Machievellian narcissists, yet people still fall for it every time.

Don't forget, the same fist-waving mobs supporting Netanyahu used the same arguments to wreck Iraq and Afghanistan, and ultimately an entire region and tens of of millions of lives. Just because there were no consequences doesn't change a damned thing about what they did.

Yet we're horrified when a single injustice happens to a neighbour. It takes discipline to not turn horrible reality into a meme in the mind's eye.

Not even someone hacking off your testacles and hanging you in a cage in jungle somewhere for a year justifies returning to physically and psychiatrically torture their children. Even worse, imagine all of the sick, disabled and mentally disabled people being stomped into the dirt like worthless bugs as people clamour to survive.

There's a level of repulsive degradation here up with the worst behaviour in human history. And remember, it's always worse again when the full story is revealed, leaving every big mouthing justifier scurrying under the nearest rock like a cockroach to pretend they never supported it.

There are no 'sides' in these situations, FFS.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2024 10:26 pm
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Sorry, carry on. I've said my bit and won't go on like the above for a while. It's just important to sometimes engage the brute and brutal facts, imagining that every one of those hundreds and thousands of people are the victim of the brutal crime down the road.

It's far more horrific than we can grasp because we simply can't mentally multiply the brutal crime down the road by hundreds of thousands of people. So, instead we treat it as Facebook chess or something.

That said, even I agree we can't live in the mindset of my post above 24/7 lest we too go mad.

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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2024 10:29 pm
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Israel now launching its offensive against Rafah.
Biden giving the Israeli government the green light.
According to Biden, this is all just "self-defence", and anyone who opposes genocide is an "anti-Semite".
Tom Cotton, Republican fascist - but who agrees with Biden - has just declared that all opponents of the genocide in Gaza are "terrorist sympathisers".
Biden doesn't openly use this language himself (yet), but he is happy that Cotton is giving him extra political support.
Meanwhile, cops in the US have arrested over 2300 anti-genocide protestors, on the orders of Democrat politicians, state and federal.
Democrats and fascist Republicans are forming a political alliance with the aims of implementing police state measures against pro-Palestinian opposition.
There is an orchestra of lies:
Biden is playing the "anti-Semitic"slanders,
while the Republicans are playing the "pro-terrorist" slanders.
Togehter, they are attempting to compose a symphony of police state repression.
It is also worth notiig that here are many Republican politicans who are open anti-Semites (yet Biden is not mentioning them), and the Biden administration is arming pro-Holocaust fascist militia in Ukraine.
Time to take heed of all the contradictions, and draw some necessary conclusions.

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2024 6:52 pm
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I'm not an apologist for Hamas, they're a terrorist group and one who conducted atrocities on October 7th.

Anyone who isn't at least prepared to acknowledge this basic premise in conjunction with the legitimate protesting of the death of innocent Palestinian civilians lacks balance IMO and one has to question their true motives.

Likewise people who associate everyone protesting the war in Gaza as terrorist sympathisers is nothing but conservative propaganda. Most people are smart enough to see the distinction between 2 million Palestinians struggling to survive in Gaza (the majority children) and the vastly smaller Hamas fighters, leaders and politicians hiding among them.

Despite the Israeli government having legitimate reasons to be outraged over the October 7th attack of Jewish citizens, the fact they still went ahead and greatly embellished or outright lied about what they claimed were the worst atrocities committed that day, goes to the heart of why so many distrust their messaging and question their actual motivations for the continued war in Gaza.

I apologise if these videos have already been linked previously but I've ony just come across them and I found them recommended viewing. Warning viewer discretion is advised for the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY

Interview with the director of the above documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4vqO-Y70Mk

A seemingly well known American academic giving his opinion on the continuing war in Gaza and the motives behind it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAfIYtpcBxo&t=4431s

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:14 pm
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Indications that both Hamas and Israel’s government might be willing to support the ceasefire plan proposed by the US:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/2/how-significant-is-bidens-gaza-peace-plan-will-hamas-and-israel-agree

I haven’t looked at this in great detail, but the basic framework sounds promising: a six-week ceasefire and withdrawal of IDF forces from populated areas of the Strip; a major exchange of Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners; and significant influx of aid and infrastructure.

What really needs to happen of course is a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces, an end to the occupation, free elections in Gaza, reparations for the Palestinian people and justice enacted against the perpetrators of war crimes. But before any of that takes place, the most urgent step is to stem the bleeding and prevent people from dying and suffering " so anything that has that result should be welcomed.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:47 pm
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^

Not looking likely, a couple of far right nuts in the Israeli government have apparently put Benny Net on notice that if he does, they'll bring down his leadership.

Ole Benny is as likely to willingly give up power as Putin or Xi.

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:31 pm
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Agreed, but last I heard Gantz and a few on the other side have said they’ll walk if he doesn’t. I think his prime ministership is terminal at this point anyway, so the walls are bound to close in on him at some point whatever he does.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:21 am
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Yep. I read somewhere that he would resoundingly lose an election if held soon, but elections have been suspended while the war is going on, so he has zero incentive to stop.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:55 pm
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What impact does all of this have, do we think, on Australia's World Cup Qualifier against Palestine next Tuesday evening?
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:11 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
What impact does all of this have, do we think, on Australia's World Cup Qualifier against Palestine next Tuesday evening?

None, except that Palestine's team was clearly not living in Gaza on October 7.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 11:27 pm
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Is it their home game? Shocked
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:10 pm
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This topic seems to have descended to the lower ranks of the popularity list.
Yet the genocide continues on unabated, and the fascist war criminal Netahayu is about to be welcomed to the US congress in July.
War criminal Gallant, who referred to the Palestinians as "human animals" has just received a red carpet reception in Washington.
This criminal also infamously declared, on the second day of Israel’s onslaught on Gaza : “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed.”
By rights, the moment he stepped off the aeroplane he should have been arrested and sent to the ICC to be prosecuted for war crimes.
Gallant's warm welcome in Washington, and Netahayu's in the near future, confirms what i have been emphasizing constantly in this thread: US is backing the Israeli government to the hilt in carrying out its genocide in Gaza, because the destruction of all of Iran's allies is the necessary precondition for full scale war against Iran - the main target of US imperialism in the Middle East.
As I type this, the Israeli government and the US government are plotting their next moves agaisnt Hezbollah.
You saw it first here.

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:41 pm
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What's rarer: Halley's Comet, or a Labor politician demonstrating courage and principles?

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/senator-fatima-payman-says-she-will-cross-the-floor-to-support-palestine/news-story/1af55f9058a28f2db262f40eb32de85f

All power to Payman " she gets nothing but praise for me for staying true to her convictions. I'd like to think that even those who disagree with her stance on this (i.e. that Australia should recognise Palestinian statehood, which is hardly a radical stance even in our benighted political context) can appreciate politicians who think for themselves instead of pretending to believe in the party line.

I note that Liberal and National MPs have been crossing the floor for years without incident, and I hardly think it'd kill the ALP to be a bit more accepting of dissent within their own ranks.

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