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Post Match. Pies trump Tigers. All comments, please.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:54 pm
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^ Doris, of course Grundy wasn't "bad". There's a special standard that some purported "supporters" apply to him - namely, that every time an opposition player gets the ball after a stoppage, it's Grundy's fault. It doesn't happen often any week (and it didn't happen often on Sunday, either) - but it seems that he's only done his job if the opposition does not touch the ball. We don't apply that standard to any other player on our list (or, so far as I can recall, any other player who ever played for Collingwood).

Thus, eg, if I were stupid enough to compare statistics and say that Martin had 19 disposals and 4 clearances, so Pendlebury got "thrashed", you would rightly say I was an arsehole. Of course, in a team sport about control of territory, one tries to look at the positive things your team's players do - thus a sane person would observe that Pendlebury had 24 disposals and 5 clearances and speak, as you have done, about his positive contribution.

Collingwood won the hitouts 45 to 18 and the hitouts to advantage 15 to 2. Grundy had 22 disposals to Chol's 11, took 5 marks to Chol's 1, kicked a goal, had 8 score involvements to Chol's 3, and took the vast majority of the ruck contests (64 of 78), thus enabling Cameron to play mostly as a forward and kick 2 further goals.

As usual, in the last quarter when the opposition players can't ruck any more at all (people don't seem to appreciate just how hard the competition finds it trying to match it with Grundy for more than about 60% game time), Grundy totally dominated - he didn't just do a few good things, he totally dominated. The AFL's stats recorder shows that he was involved in the play about once every 30 seconds in that quarter alone. Collingwood kicked at least 5 goals to nil from stoppages in that quarter and controlled possession a ridiculously favourable 62% to 25% (the balance of the time the ball was dispute).

In a normal universe, that would be described as a shellacking - but not here.
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Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:01 pm
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Well... I had tickets to go... and then family matters got in the way... my streak of not being there when we win continues... (Last time was the QF against the Cats/Pendles 300th).

Crisp and Adams were sensational. JDG was also bloody great!

WHE and Cal Brown have turned their form around I'm hoping that Cal can keep it going.

JT was pretty good with 19 touches and 2 goals as well.

I liked what I saw from Ruscoe after coming in as the sub too. I'd keep him in.

Our best win in some time.

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Big T 



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Longgang, Zhejiang, China

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:16 pm
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Grundy destroyed them in the last. No one can doubt that.
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:14 pm
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That was an astonishing win. That last quarter was exhilarating to watch. We have not seen such an electric style of football since 2018.
Pendles' pure magic was back, and as he burst from the centre with his unique running gait and kicked that goal, it reminded me of a similar magical goal he kicked against Geelong in 2010 Preliminary final.
Adams' last quarter was heroic. Maynard and Crisp were utterly brilliant throughout the game. I thought our mids and Grundy looked better together than they have for a very long time. Our midfield had a hardness and dynamism that has long been absent, and I thought Grundy was good throughout the game, and brilliant in the final quarter.
I also thought Oliver Henry played a game from which he can make his first base for establishing confidence at this level.
I was just overjoyed to see that final quarter: it brought back so many memories of the dynamic aggression we saw in 2018, but so rarely since. The flame is burning still. Well done Pies.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:24 pm
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Big T wrote:
Grundy destroyed them in the last. No one can doubt that.

afl.com.au reports Chol played out the game injured... Just saying...
And Chol is not a ruckman...
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:27 pm
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David wrote:
K wrote:
K wrote:
warburton lad wrote:
So the Fox Footy commentators feel that 'The Tigers had a very young side out there...". Give it a spell.
...

Dunno how young the Tiggers are... But I know they are very weak. No good team loses 4 in a row, with possibly more to come.
...


"Against the Magpies, they had nine players – Patrick Naish, Sydney Stack, Ryan Garthwaite, Rhyan Mansell, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Jack Ross, Thomson Dow, Mabior Chol and Jake Aarts – who had played fewer than 30 games at the top level."

(afl.com.au)

Dunno how many we had...

But another stat might look different anyway, e.g. how many players 21 or younger.


We had six, by my count: Cameron (23), Murphy (12), Bianco (6), Henry (4), Ruscoe (4) and Kelly (2). But it's a pretty arbitrary cut-off: if you went with, say, 20 games instead of 30, then Richmond had the exact same number as us, as Aarts (30), Stack (27), Chol (27) and Ross (25) – the last of whom was the sub and didn't actually take the field – all have a greater number of games under their belts.

In terms of players 21 years old and under, Richmond had five (including Ross) and we had six.

Thanks for counting! Smile

Yep, it is arbitrary. 20 games, 30 games, 50 games...
First year, second year, third year...
Below 20 years old, below 21, below 24...

(But if all of those went the same way, there'd be a pretty strong case.)
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:43 pm
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Magpietothemax wrote:
That was an astonishing win. That last quarter was exhilarating to watch. We have not seen such an electric style of football since 2018.
Pendles' pure magic was back, and as he burst from the centre with his unique running gait and kicked that goal, it reminded me of a similar magical goal he kicked against Geelong in 2010 Preliminary final.
Adams' last quarter was heroic. Maynard and Crisp were utterly brilliant throughout the game. I thought our mids and Grundy looked better together than they have for a very long time. Our midfield had a hardness and dynamism that has long been absent, and I thought Grundy was good throughout the game, and brilliant in the final quarter.
I also thought Oliver Henry played a game from which he can make his first base for establishing confidence at this level.
I was just overjoyed to see that final quarter: it brought back so many memories of the dynamic aggression we saw in 2018, but so rarely since. The flame is burning still. Well done Pies.


You make a good point about Henry. I have been a critic of him being played well ahead of his time but his game against the Tigers showed glimpses of an ability to compete at that level. Personally, I would leave him in the team against the Blues. He’s going to find it easier against the Blues backline than he did against the Tigers. The Tigers had a few out but their back six on a bad day is better than the Blues defence on any day.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he kicks his first goal in the seniors this week …. if they choose to leave him there.
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Big T 



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Longgang, Zhejiang, China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:20 am
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K wrote:
Big T wrote:
Grundy destroyed them in the last. No one can doubt that.

afl.com.au reports Chol played out the game injured... Just saying...
And Chol is not a ruckman...


Was his injury a sore bum after being whacked by Grundy all day?

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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:06 am
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K wrote:
Big T wrote:
Grundy destroyed them in the last. No one can doubt that.

afl.com.au reports Chol played out the game injured... Just saying...
And Chol is not a ruckman...

Chol shouldn’t be played in the ruck, but since the Richmond ruckmen are injured Richmond don’t have any choice but to play him. When you control the play, as we did with Grundy, you control the match. If Adams and Crisp had learned to kick at junior level we’d have a premiership in the bank in 2018 and would be destroying opposition teams over the years. Instead we struggle to finish teams off. The good news is our future generation of kids coming through with the exception of Rantall (there’s always one) are beautiful kicks.
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mudlark 



Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Location: Maroochydore Qld

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:36 pm
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Presti35 wrote:
Well... I had tickets to go... and then family matters got in the way... my streak of not being there when we win continues... (Last time was the QF against the Cats/Pendles 300th).

Crisp and Adams were sensational. JDG was also bloody great!

WHE and Cal Brown have turned their form around I'm hoping that Cal can keep it going.

JT was pretty good with 19 touches and 2 goals as well.

I liked what I saw from Ruscoe after coming in as the sub too. I'd keep him in.

Our best win in some time.

I think you could add Maynard to Crisp and Adams ,Presti.He was sensational. And I have to admit that the turnaround in Callum Browns form is encouraging. Somewhere in this thread I asked if he went for a crap and 1/4 time and never came back ,but that was before 3/4 time.His first and last 1/4's were brilliant and there is no denying that. The BIG thing I noticed ws that he saw ball, got ball and didn't LOOK BACK!! Head down ,arse up and ran forward to OUR goals with powerful and purposeful running.Usually his first action is to stop, prop ,turn backwards and then pass backwards. A few players have stopped doing this and we kicked some pretty impressive ,surging goals, which has to give us all some heart that perhaps they were being held back by a very bad game plan.There is one player who has yet to read the script and that is Chris Mayne and I for one would certainly prefer to see Tom Wilson take his place.He is the epitome of go FORWARD!! It was just so good to bat Richmond and almost finish the finals race but for GWS and Wet Toast.Hoping Brisbane can turn the lights off on Friday and we continue the last qtr against the Blues and wipe the deck with them.
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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:57 pm
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That's a good call re Mayne and Tom Wilson, Mudlark. As Mayne will surely retire after this season anyway, now is the time to let his replacement gain some valuable senior experience. I only saw part of last week's VFL game, but from what i saw, Wilson looked the goods.
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Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:07 pm
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I've seen Wilson make some bad decisions in the VFL along with one really really bad skill error. But he has also shown signs that he could become a good player. I think he needs a bit more time tho.

I also think Mayne will retire/return to Freo. But I would encourage him to play one more year. Experience is still something we'll need around the club. He hasn't been bad this year. But at 33 in November, new coach may let him walk.

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mudlark 



Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Location: Maroochydore Qld

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:34 pm
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[quote="RudeBoy"]That's a good call re Mayne and Tom Wilson, Mudlark. As Mayne will surely retire after this season anyway, now is the time to let his replacement gain some valuable senior experience. I only saw part of last week's VFL game, but from what i saw, Wilson looked the goods.[/quit
I felt sorry for Wilson in his debut game and one of my faves, Maynard, sort of threw him under a bus with 3 or 4 of the worst kicks to him but at least he battled on. His next game was pretty good and I thought he was dry stiff to get dropped. He looks a real goer for mine.
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Big T 



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Longgang, Zhejiang, China

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:06 am
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[quote="mudlark"]
RudeBoy wrote:
That's a good call re Mayne and Tom Wilson, Mudlark. As Mayne will surely retire after this season anyway, now is the time to let his replacement gain some valuable senior experience. I only saw part of last week's VFL game, but from what i saw, Wilson looked the goods.[/quit
I felt sorry for Wilson in his debut game and one of my faves, Maynard, sort of threw him under a bus with 3 or 4 of the worst kicks to him but at least he battled on. His next game was pretty good and I thought he was dry stiff to get dropped. He looks a real goer for mine.


Agree, like him.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:15 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
^ Doris, of course Grundy wasn't "bad". There's a special standard that some purported "supporters" apply to him - namely, that every time an opposition player gets the ball after a stoppage, it's Grundy's fault. It doesn't happen often any week (and it didn't happen often on Sunday, either) - but it seems that he's only done his job if the opposition does not touch the ball. We don't apply that standard to any other player on our list (or, so far as I can recall, any other player who ever played for Collingwood).

Thus, eg, if I were stupid enough to compare statistics and say that Martin had 19 disposals and 4 clearances, so Pendlebury got "thrashed", you would rightly say I was an arsehole. Of course, in a team sport about control of territory, one tries to look at the positive things your team's players do - thus a sane person would observe that Pendlebury had 24 disposals and 5 clearances and speak, as you have done, about his positive contribution.

Collingwood won the hitouts 45 to 18 and the hitouts to advantage 15 to 2. Grundy had 22 disposals to Chol's 11, took 5 marks to Chol's 1, kicked a goal, had 8 score involvements to Chol's 3, and took the vast majority of the ruck contests (64 of 7Cool, thus enabling Cameron to play mostly as a forward and kick 2 further goals.

As usual, in the last quarter when the opposition players can't ruck any more at all (people don't seem to appreciate just how hard the competition finds it trying to match it with Grundy for more than about 60% game time), Grundy totally dominated - he didn't just do a few good things, he totally dominated. The AFL's stats recorder shows that he was involved in the play about once every 30 seconds in that quarter alone. Collingwood kicked at least 5 goals to nil from stoppages in that quarter and controlled possession a ridiculously favourable 62% to 25% (the balance of the time the ball was dispute).

In a normal universe, that would be described as a shellacking - but not here.

Brownlow votes:

3. T.Adams (COL)

2. B.Grundy (COL)

1. J.De Goey (COL)
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