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George Floyd Police killing and protests

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:05 am
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isnt it just plain murder? how do you kill someone 3 times?

as the guy in mayans said last night, "he aint getting any deader!!"

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:28 pm
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aB9xhr_wR0M
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:42 pm
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think positive wrote:
isnt it just plain murder? how do you kill someone 3 times?

as the guy in mayans said last night, "he aint getting any deader!!"


Very different laws in the US.

Here we likely wouldn't have changed him with murder as intent is hard to prove but it would be a lay down misere for manslaughter.


Over there they can charge him with different degrees so if they lose the hardest to prove they have others or they can, like in this instance, get a guilty verdict on all of them. I don't like the system personally.

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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:34 pm
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Well, this is fascinating.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/27/george-floyd-2004-drug-conviction-houston

Apart from the narcotics officer who entrapped him being presntly on felony murder charges for two unconnected killings, there's this:

Quote:
As prosecutors delved into the Goines case, a vast number of convictions in which he was involved began unravelling. More than 160 convictions have been dismissed, and more than 10 current and former officers from the city’s narcotics unit, including Goines, have been indicted. More cases are pending.

....

Mathis goes on to describe the legal trap in which Floyd then found himself, with no chance to press his innocence.

“If Floyd had gone to trial, he would have faced punishment enhancements that would have branded him a habitual offender and could have sent him to prison for a minimum of 25 years.”

And so Floyd pleaded guilty to a crime he almost certainly hadn’t committed, and served 10 months in jail.
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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:56 am
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/30/colorado-police-loveland-officers-resign
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:25 am
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Retrial?

I don't know enough about the law in the USA to comment, but this looks interesting for the defence.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/derek-chauvins-lawyer-requests-new-trial-accusing-juror-of-misconduct/news-story/1ceb6db8819b05c7a808869d1d023c72
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:07 pm
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I think it'd honestly be impossible to find twelve people who hadn't heard of the incident and already formed a strong opinion of it, so it does seem a bit arbitrary to bar protesters from sitting on the jury. Having said that, if this juror has provided false information then I think it's reasonable to expect a retrial on that basis alone.
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:49 pm
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It's also an insight into how stupid at least one of the jurors was.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:24 pm
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Lying on the jury selection questionnaire is pretty stupid but so is expecting to be able to find 12 people who are unbiased in a case like that.

cases like this are the ideal example of being suited to a judge or panel of judges making the decision rather than a jury.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:53 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Lying on the jury selection questionnaire is pretty stupid but so is expecting to be able to find 12 people who are unbiased in a case like that.

cases like this are the ideal example of being suited to a judge or panel of judges making the decision rather than a jury.


is it racist to suggest i cant believe the defence didnt try to block any black jurors? i agree, and im not even sure youd find an honest judge! doesnt really matter, this cop was as guilty as sin!

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:39 pm
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Everything is racist these days.

I don't think banning black jurors would help unless you imported some KKK members from interstate.

Look, the guy killed Floyd. Zero doubt in that. What's up for grabs under their "interesting" judicial system is what specific charges he's guilty of.

I still think that the first charge is a real stretch, but if going OTT on Chauvin helps heal some wounds it's probably justice.

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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:44 pm
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^ Given the trial judge's directions to the jury on that charge, there was always going to be a conviction. I assume the directions were legally accurate - but proffer no view about that.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:02 am
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think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Lying on the jury selection questionnaire is pretty stupid but so is expecting to be able to find 12 people who are unbiased in a case like that.

cases like this are the ideal example of being suited to a judge or panel of judges making the decision rather than a jury.


is it racist to suggest i cant believe the defence didnt try to block any black jurors?


It would be, because no-one in this day and age would be able to get away with pretending that white Americans don't also have (subconscious or otherwise) vested interest in maintaining forms of privilege that culminate in police violence against unarmed African-Americans – so any notion that black people are inherently biased about cases like this but white people aren't would be, I hope, quickly rejected.

I investigated further, and it seems like this practice was made illegal in the US back in 1986, although it still happens unofficially – there's an interesting article about it here:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-is-it-so-easy-for-prosecutors-to-strike-black-jurors

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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:52 am
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It works both ways. When there is a black defendant, the prosecution generally strikes out some black jurors and the defence generally strikes out some white jurors.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 7:40 am
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/27/manuel-ellis-tacoma-three-officers-charged-death

Quote:
The Washington state attorney general’s office has filed felony charges against three police officers in the killing of Manuel Ellis, a 33-year-old Black father of two, who, moments before his death, called out: “I can’t breathe.”

This is the first time the office has filed criminal charges against police officers for unlawful use of deadly force.

Tacoma police officers Christopher Burbank and Matthew Collins were charged with second-degree murder, while Timothy Rankine was charged with first-degree manslaughter. The maximum sentence for both offenses is life in prison. It was unclear whether any of the three officers had retained a lawyer.

The decision came more than a year after the Pierce county medical examiner’s office ruled Ellis’s death a homicide, and followed months of contradicting information from law enforcement officials, who framed Ellis as the aggressor, and eyewitness testimony and video that showed the opposite.
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