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Respecting Indigenous cultural beliefs

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:46 pm
Post subject: Respecting Indigenous cultural beliefsReply with quote

I was reading about a recent documentary called In My Blood It Runs, which I haven't seen, but has been getting a lot of positive reviews. It's about a ten-year-old Arrernte boy in Alice Springs who is passionate about his traditional culture but feels disillusioned by formal education, particularly in terms of its Westernised approach to Australian history and lack of space for traditional learning, and its perspective is clear: that a streamlined educational process is alienating and unhelpful for Aboriginal children, and (I get the impression this is at the very least implicit) contributing to rates of truancy and juvenile crime. Anyway, don't take my (second-hand) word for it; you can watch the whole thing here for a fee: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/inmyblooditrunscaptioned

There's a lot to be said for how the education system can better accommodate Aboriginal kids living in remote areas, and how an assimilationist approach will likely cause more harm than good. Something I'm curious about though is one element of the film that most reviewers refer to uncritically, or even with reverence: the child who is the subject of the documentary is also a faith healer, or Ngangkari, and much is made of his ability to cure the sick by placing his hands on them. A review in The Conversation, for instance, refers to him as a "powerful child healer", while The Guardian says that he "was born with a memory of the ancestors", which is what the title of the film refers to.

I think most of us know the correct response to this: that is, to acknowledge this without mockery or unnecessary expression of scepticism. It's a different cultural tradition to our own, but still valid; live and let live. But don't most of us – New Age types who believe in reiki et al excepted – also feel, deep down, that this is not a real skill this child possesses, and that those adults who are telling him otherwise are leading him up the garden path? And that if, instead of practising traditional Indigenous culture, he were, say, a Pentecostal kid learning how to speak in tongues or conduct exorcisms, we might feel very differently about this? If so, nobody's saying it, from what I'm aware.

I'm a pluralist at heart, and believe strongly in religious and cultural freedom, particularly when it comes to groups to whom this land actually belongs and from whom it was stolen. So I think it's important that such practices are tolerated and not suppressed (and indeed there are suggestions that integration of "holistic therapy" such as practised by Ngangkari within the mainstream health system encourages more Indigenous people to attend hospitals and clinics). This all ties in with the documentary's argument about schooling: assimilationism is a failure precisely because it is perceived as hostile, whereas integration of cultural traditions can help bridge the gap. And for that to be successful, we need to suppress our inner sceptics, which are telling us, bluntly, that Western science and medicine is superior to traditional Aboriginal practices, and that the latter are at least partly based on superstition.

This leads to another recent news item, which most of you are probably already familiar with – the Andrews government's decision to chop down a sacred Djab Wurrung tree for the sake of expanding a highway:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-31/indigenous-heritage-djab-wurrung-tree/12830616

In this case, none of what I wrote above should be relevant – you don't have to actually believe that the tree has spiritual powers, just as you don't have to believe that Uluru is anything more than a big rock in the desert (and to be clear, I don't, and I suspect you don't either), to respect the traditional owners' wishes for it to be left alone (and to consider the enforcement of that respect worth legislating). But again, there's a clear reluctance in mainstream discourse to point out the elephant in the room, which is that there's oftentimes a kind of patronising indulgence in the way Indigenous traditions are discussed by non-Indigenous people (the ones who aren't overtly hostile, that is). Deep down, most non-Indigenous people who don't believe in the magic powers of crystals or tarot cards think that Aboriginal creation stories are no more valid than the Christian Creationist belief that the world was created 6000 years ago. And while we can argue that one is a valid target for mockery and not the other (privilege, punching down, reflections of traditional disenfranchisement, and so on), I do wonder if the scorn some people express for Creationists and people of that ilk is a displacement of all the things they feel they can't say about more taboo topics like this.

I guess what all of this comes down to is ... what do we mean when we talk about "respecting" other cultures? You can and should respect people who believe in things you personally find silly, but that's a different matter. What I'm wondering is, is it really possible to respect a belief even if you don't find it credible? Or is what we mean when we talk about "respect" just to keep on practising the doublethink that I described above: that is, to think what you like, but keep it to yourself? Is this a case where being insincere is commendable?

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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:10 pm
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I do not respect bullshite. I don't care what colour you are or whether your brand of kookery is dreamtime stories, jihadist fantasies, or Baptist silliness. They are all the same insofar as they willingly abandon sense and logic and reason and science in order to foolishly believe in nonsense.

Common politeness sees to it that I rarely mention this in contexts where it is not necessary. Common decency and a deep respect for the social tolerance which alone make society possible means that I'm happily willing to tolerate the most ridiculous beliefs and customs, up to the point where they impact on society, on the environment, or on other people. But if it harms no-one, then people have every right to believe whatever nonsense they please. Hell, I believe that Collingwood is going to win the 2021 and 2022 premierships, and how stupid does that me me look?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:27 pm
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Is it worth pointing out here, though, that the majority of Aboriginal people who still observe traditional beliefs would quite likely interpret disrespecting the belief – calling Dreamtime stories "kookery", etc. – as disrespect for them personally? And if so, doesn't the expression of that sentiment wind up contributing to the sentiments of disenfranchisement from the cultural mainstream that so many feel?
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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:44 pm
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David wrote:
Is it worth pointing out here, though, that the majority of Aboriginal people who still observe traditional beliefs would quite likely interpret disrespecting the belief – calling Dreamtime stories "kookery", etc. – as disrespect for them personally? And if so, doesn't the expression of that sentiment wind up contributing to the sentiments of disenfranchisement from the cultural mainstream that so many feel?


no different from disrespecting Christians belief in the bible? or Muslims belief in Allah?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:48 am
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Effectively, though one could argue that the stakes are higher here.
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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:22 am
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David wrote:
Is it worth pointing out here, though, that the majority of Aboriginal people who still observe traditional beliefs would quite likely interpret disrespecting the belief – calling Dreamtime stories "kookery", etc. – as disrespect for them personally?


Not really. If Jones wants to have kooky beliefs, he are 100% entitled to that. If he wants to take normal, sensible, rational, evidenced views as an affront to him personally, then he has a psychological problem. I can't help that.

In my view, being unable to distinguish reasonably plausible fact from ridiculous, contra-evidence fiction, while common, is a disability which makes a person unfit for public office. (And yes, I'm looking at you Scott Morrison.)

Note the distinction here between kooky beliefs on the one hand and cultural richness on the other. It is a subtle one, but I think the difference comes down to the way one holds a belief. Some beliefs control other beliefs and are central organising factors for the person. These are the dangerous ones (where they are irrational). Other beliefs exist relatively singly: they might be a part of your life, perhaps an important part, but you know they are irrational and you don't let them take over. You remain in charge, not the belief.

David wrote:
And if so, doesn't the expression of that sentiment wind up contributing to the sentiments of disenfranchisement from the cultural mainstream that so many feel?


Very likely. But there isn't much that can be done about that. If you are going to have weird beliefs, people are going to think you are weird. If you are going to turn the lights out, people are going to notice that it is dark. Fact of life. (Once again, this remark isn't targeted at any particular group. It applies to all weird, contra-evidence beliefs.)

Notwithstanding all of the above, I like diversity and I like the wonderful stories. Some of them are very real for me when I'm in the relevant country.

PS: I 100% support the people vs the freeway. Good on 'em. The mania to destroy, destroy, destroy that very special country is unbelievable - especially when there is absolutely no reason that the road can't be put on nearby already-destroyed land with no trees or wildlife or anything else bar a few sheep.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:41 am
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I definitely agree with the last point – even putting aside the spiritual beliefs regarding it, the tree they cut down was an incredibly striking and beautiful one. Just seemed like so much vandalism. And I still think it was a bastard act to do it on a day when major progress on COVID-19 was announced and most people were looking the other way.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:24 am
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I'm personally very skeptical of any significance to that tree as I am with most "traditional" Indigenous things in Victoria. Many of them seem to be fairly recent inventions, compared to other states where there has been a significant and continual transfer of heritage.

Uluru is one such thing.

Many of the dreamtime stories are just stories designed to explain natural features, Sun, moon, stars, rivers, etc and have as much basis in fact as the bible.

Others however are basically history being remembered and sometimes warnings. "The First Woman" is a story in the Tiwi Islands which basically remembers when the islands were cut off from the mainland by rising sea levels over 5000 years ago.

Rock paintings I saw in Kakdu tell of an evil spirit in a cave that kills people. From memory, the evil spirit is actually gas and if you ignore the warnings and walk in, you won't get far before you fall over and die.

I don't believe in faith healing or crystals but traditional medicine using local indigenous plants is only just really being investigated and should be taken seriously.

My view, same as with all these beliefs, believe what you want as long as it doesn't have a negative impost on anyone else.

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Last edited by stui magpie on Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:17 pm
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David wrote:
Effectively, though one could argue that the stakes are higher here.


only because you care more, not to the people involved

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eddiesmith Taurus

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:28 pm
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What was interesting was the police were a lot more sympathetic and less forceful than they had been with anti government protests

But some of these things these groups come up with to stop a highway it’s easy to become sceptical. The protests against Eastlink were you can’t build the road as the dirty filthy creek was home to platypus’s. I’ve lived here over 30 years, walked the creek trail thousands of time, never seen one!

But of course ALP government caved to the greens, so this highway must be mighty important for them to not cave this time.
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:41 pm
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think positive wrote:
David wrote:
Effectively, though one could argue that the stakes are higher here.


only because you care more, not to the people involved


Nothing to do with me – it’s because Indigenous disaffection with and disconnection from mainstream Australian culture is arguably a key factor in bad social outcomes (given it fosters distrust of vital institutions and mainstream society more generally). This simply isn’t a problem for most Christians – for starters, let’s not forget that the Lord’s prayer is still recited before parliament opens and Christian holy days are still public holidays – and at least somewhat less so for Muslims.

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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:37 pm
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And who says Morrison's happy clappers or those weirdos who have recently stacked the Victorian Liberal Party are "connected with mainstream Australia"?
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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:02 pm
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^

Is there a group of politicians anywhere in Australia who is?

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:51 pm
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Tannin wrote:
And who says Morrison's happy clappers or those weirdos who have recently stacked the Victorian Liberal Party are "connected with mainstream Australia"?


Not in some respects. But the key difference is that those are the people who run the show. They hold the power as opposed to being at the mercy of it.

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