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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^^
I don't disagree with what you say CC but where I differ is that I differentiate between disrespectful language toward woman and disrespectful language toward a person who happens to be a woman, that is not based on gender.
There's no doubt that making disrespectful jokes about any group of people, whether based on gender, race or religion, leads to disrespect generally which can have flow on effects.
The comments made were based on disrespect for the person, not the gender and that IMHO is where the whole thing has gone haywire. If this is the precedent, any disrespectful remark about an individual could be considered/construed as racism/sexism or some other ism if that person isn't a white Australian Christian male. |
I agree to an certain extend, but I'm sure you would concede the bolded is at best a pretty tenuous distinction?
Let me be clear, I feel far less strongly abouts Eds comments than the reaction to it, which shocks me to a certain degree.
And it is a 2-way street, no doubt...guess its just the level of polarisation that surprises me, I see it pretty clear cut, its not like the position of Buckley, which could be fairly argued either way |
I don't agree that it's tenuous, in my mind I can draw a clear distinction.
If the remarks were made about Waleed Aly would they be disrespectful to Muslims?
Eddie has little respect for Wilson, as a person. That is pretty much a known fact. The fact that she happens to be female is IMHO incidental and unrelated. His comments IMHO were clearly based on his opinion of the person and had no gender relationship intended or implied.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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scoobydoo
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | CarringbushCigar wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | I'm hoping Sam pushes off the fence with the long run up tonight. |
Poor Eddie. With friends like Sam last night, Eddie doesn't need more enemies. The paleontological tool that Sam is has NFI.
This is the same Sam that thought it was funny to get a mannequin & assault it as he did with the picture of Wilson on it. Of course Sam said it was all a joke, nothing in it. |
WTF ?? Sam, whom I often disagree with, pointed out very well the gross hypocrisy between radio 3AW , Caros mob, and MMM, Caro let the AW team say the same thing, did nothing, not a whimper, then after five day, five bloody days, unleashes feinged outrage against eddie. Gimme a break, Sam caught her out good n proper, for the pontificating scandal bullshit artist she truly is.   |
Sam was barely human last night for continuing the attack on Caroline Wilson.
Eddie and all involved, should be and ARE sorry for the threatening language that was used.
Sam and some of these posts are just a part of the evidence of why we need to stop accepting that that behaviour is ok. |
BANG goes the hammer as it hits the nails head! |
Wasn't it Danny Frawley who said the words "I'll hold her under Ed"
What did Eddie say that was sooooooooo offensive? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Eddie said he'd pay $20k if she went down the slide and $50k if she didn't come up.
His feelings about her are pretty clear, but as I said above, I can't balance in my head that feelings toward an individual automatically reflect on all others of the same gender/race/religion.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Didaksgoal 
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
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| All this outrage over nothing. It just goes to show you how powerful the media is, rightly or wrongly......and absolutely wrong in this case. For the media and people to draw a similarity between what happened in the MMM box and domestic violence, or violence against women....You've got to be kidding me! |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^^
I don't disagree with what you say CC but where I differ is that I differentiate between disrespectful language toward woman and disrespectful language toward a person who happens to be a woman, that is not based on gender.
There's no doubt that making disrespectful jokes about any group of people, whether based on gender, race or religion, leads to disrespect generally which can have flow on effects.
The comments made were based on disrespect for the person, not the gender and that IMHO is where the whole thing has gone haywire. If this is the precedent, any disrespectful remark about an individual could be considered/construed as racism/sexism or some other ism if that person isn't a white Australian Christian male. |
I agree to an certain extend, but I'm sure you would concede the bolded is at best a pretty tenuous distinction?
Let me be clear, I feel far less strongly abouts Eds comments than the reaction to it, which shocks me to a certain degree.
And it is a 2-way street, no doubt...guess its just the level of polarisation that surprises me, I see it pretty clear cut, its not like the position of Buckley, which could be fairly argued either way |
I don't agree that it's tenuous, in my mind I can draw a clear distinction.
If the remarks were made about Waleed Aly would they be disrespectful to Muslims?
Eddie has little respect for Wilson, as a person. That is pretty much a known fact. The fact that she happens to be female is IMHO incidental and unrelated. His comments IMHO were clearly based on his opinion of the person and had no gender relationship intended or implied. |
Would prefer if you didn't edit my response if we are going to argue the point; its a simple matter of courtesy, same as citing references in an essay.
But I digress; you are certainly entitled to not see it as a gender bias comment from Eddies POV, but I would argue that even if that was the case, the societal context in which the comments were made over rides.
As I said to a previous poster, on average 2 deaths a week, of women, as a result of DV.....I feel that stat over rides any beef between Caro and Ed, which, lets face it, is a pretty childish beef between 2 very highly paid members of a very questionable and ethically dubious media, Eds role as Pres aside
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992
Last edited by Collingwood Crackerjack on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| scoobydoo wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | CarringbushCigar wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | I'm hoping Sam pushes off the fence with the long run up tonight. |
Poor Eddie. With friends like Sam last night, Eddie doesn't need more enemies. The paleontological tool that Sam is has NFI.
This is the same Sam that thought it was funny to get a mannequin & assault it as he did with the picture of Wilson on it. Of course Sam said it was all a joke, nothing in it. |
WTF ?? Sam, whom I often disagree with, pointed out very well the gross hypocrisy between radio 3AW , Caros mob, and MMM, Caro let the AW team say the same thing, did nothing, not a whimper, then after five day, five bloody days, unleashes feinged outrage against eddie. Gimme a break, Sam caught her out good n proper, for the pontificating scandal bullshit artist she truly is. |
Sam was barely human last night for continuing the attack on Caroline Wilson.
Eddie and all involved, should be and ARE sorry for the threatening language that was used.
Sam and some of these posts are just a part of the evidence of why we need to stop accepting that that behaviour is ok. |
BANG goes the hammer as it hits the nails head! |
Wasn't it Danny Frawley who said the words "I'll hold her under Ed"
What did Eddie say that was sooooooooo offensive? |
Have already stated frawley's comments were far worse.
I believe the comment was "50K if she stays under..."
But if its a matter of debating whether the comments were unseemly, I'll let the statements from the Club, CEO, and Eds apology speak for themselves....not quite sure what u r trying to say? Do u disagree with the above mentioned 3?
If so, fair play, but be explicit
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^^
I don't disagree with what you say CC but where I differ is that I differentiate between disrespectful language toward woman and disrespectful language toward a person who happens to be a woman, that is not based on gender.
There's no doubt that making disrespectful jokes about any group of people, whether based on gender, race or religion, leads to disrespect generally which can have flow on effects.
The comments made were based on disrespect for the person, not the gender and that IMHO is where the whole thing has gone haywire. If this is the precedent, any disrespectful remark about an individual could be considered/construed as racism/sexism or some other ism if that person isn't a white Australian Christian male. |
I agree to an certain extend, but I'm sure you would concede the bolded is at best a pretty tenuous distinction?
Let me be clear, I feel far less strongly abouts Eds comments than the reaction to it, which shocks me to a certain degree.
And it is a 2-way street, no doubt...guess its just the level of polarisation that surprises me, I see it pretty clear cut, its not like the position of Buckley, which could be fairly argued either way |
I don't agree that it's tenuous, in my mind I can draw a clear distinction.
If the remarks were made about Waleed Aly would they be disrespectful to Muslims?
Eddie has little respect for Wilson, as a person. That is pretty much a known fact. The fact that she happens to be female is IMHO incidental and unrelated. His comments IMHO were clearly based on his opinion of the person and had no gender relationship intended or implied. |
Would prefer if you didn't edit my response if we are going to argue the point; its a simple matter of courtesy, same as citing references in an essay.
But I digress; you are certainly entitled to not see it as a gender bias comment from Eddies POV, but I would argue that even if that was the case, the societal context in which the comments were made over rides.
As I said to a previous poster, on average 2 deaths a week, of women, as a result of DV.....I feel that stat over rides any beef between Caro and Ed, which, lets face it, is a pretty childish beef between 2 very highly paid members of a very questionable and ethically dubious media, Eds role as Pres aside |
I'm sorry, what part of your post did I edit? 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | scoobydoo wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | CarringbushCigar wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | I'm hoping Sam pushes off the fence with the long run up tonight. |
Poor Eddie. With friends like Sam last night, Eddie doesn't need more enemies. The paleontological tool that Sam is has NFI.
This is the same Sam that thought it was funny to get a mannequin & assault it as he did with the picture of Wilson on it. Of course Sam said it was all a joke, nothing in it. |
WTF ?? Sam, whom I often disagree with, pointed out very well the gross hypocrisy between radio 3AW , Caros mob, and MMM, Caro let the AW team say the same thing, did nothing, not a whimper, then after five day, five bloody days, unleashes feinged outrage against eddie. Gimme a break, Sam caught her out good n proper, for the pontificating scandal bullshit artist she truly is. |
Sam was barely human last night for continuing the attack on Caroline Wilson.
Eddie and all involved, should be and ARE sorry for the threatening language that was used.
Sam and some of these posts are just a part of the evidence of why we need to stop accepting that that behaviour is ok. |
BANG goes the hammer as it hits the nails head! |
Wasn't it Danny Frawley who said the words "I'll hold her under Ed"
What did Eddie say that was sooooooooo offensive? |
Have already stated frawley's comments were far worse.
I believe the comment was "50K if she stays under..."
But if its a matter of debating whether the comments were unseemly, I'll let the statements from the Club, CEO, and Eds apology speak for themselves....not quite sure what u r trying to say? Do u disagree with the above mentioned 3?
If so, fair play, but be explicit |
The club, the CEO , shorten , the Richmond footy club and all the other outraged do speak for themselves .....as a bunch of sheep following the popularist trending media driven band wagon.
Ed on the other hand simply had to apologise to make it go away. He's about as sorry as Wilson is hurt......ie not very.
_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Yep and hopefully some karma smacks her in the face
Oh ,wait can I say that?im a woman too, does that make it ok?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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This really is a classic example of how good causes can go bad. Domestic violence against women is a real problem and absolutely abhorrent. The major, and deserved, focus on it has however had the unfortunate effect of calibrating the societal hair trigger for outrage far too sensitively and spreading misinformation by exclusion.
Males are a victim of serious violence more often than women. State this simple fact and most people won't believe you given the shocking and oft repeated stats of violence against women. In what way then is it ok to joke about generalised violence against a man (happens all the time with no outrage. Ed's comments could so easily have been made about Robbo given events this year and no one would have cared), but some sort of mortal sin to do so against a woman? The response to Ed's comments are far more sexist, and intentionally so, than anything he said. The worst of his comments were not about drowning but the "black widow" stuff.
There is no obvious sexism at all. Wilson had written an article critical of Ed and he made some stupid comments in response. Isn't the hurtful article motive enough for the comments, what need is there to bring her gender into it? It is this assumption that I find sexist. And there is no link to domestic violence, none. Murder is serious but we joke about killing all the time, use it as a metaphor in sporting contests even. Though in a similar vein to this week, apparently using "rape" in the same way is completely unacceptable. Clearly it's a much more serious crime than murder as most victims are women, there's that sexism again. Just because domestic violence is serious and a real problem does not mean that even harmless jokes of cartoonish violence need to be treated with the same level of severity, just as the same jokes against men are not.
This type of overheated response will weaken the campaign to end violence against women and drive a wedge between the genders. We don't need ads telling men that it's wrong to kill women either, just like women don't need to be told that babies are people to and shouldn't be killed. This is a serious issue and needs to be treated seriously not used for point scoring by special interest groups, politicians or any other public personage, company or sports club.
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Well done boys! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Didaksgoal wrote: | | All this outrage over nothing. It just goes to show you how powerful the media is, rightly or wrongly......and absolutely wrong in this case. For the media and people to draw a similarity between what happened in the MMM box and domestic violence, or violence against women....You've got to be kidding me! |
The conflation of the two issues has been nothing short of disgraceful.
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I agree. And We should end this conversation here.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | This really is a classic example of how good causes can go bad. Domestic violence against women is a real problem and absolutely abhorrent. The major, and deserved, focus on it has however had the unfortunate effect of calibrating the societal hair trigger for outrage far too sensitively and spreading misinformation by exclusion.
Males are a victim of serious violence more often than women. State this simple fact and most people won't believe you given the shocking and oft repeated stats of violence against women. In what way then is it ok to joke about generalised violence against a man (happens all the time with no outrage. Ed's comments could so easily have been made about Robbo given events this year and no one would have cared), but some sort of mortal sin to do so against a woman? The response to Ed's comments are far more sexist, and intentionally so, than anything he said. The worst of his comments were not about drowning but the "black widow" stuff.
There is no obvious sexism at all. Wilson had written an article critical of Ed and he made some stupid comments in response. Isn't the hurtful article motive enough for the comments, what need is there to bring her gender into it? It is this assumption that I find sexist. And there is no link to domestic violence, none. Murder is serious but we joke about killing all the time, use it as a metaphor in sporting contests even. Though in a similar vein to this week, apparently using "rape" in the same way is completely unacceptable. Clearly it's a much more serious crime than murder as most victims are women, there's that sexism again. Just because domestic violence is serious and a real problem does not mean that even harmless jokes of cartoonish violence need to be treated with the same level of severity, just as the same jokes against men are not.
This type of overheated response will weaken the campaign to end violence against women and drive a wedge between the genders. We don't need ads telling men that it's wrong to kill women either, just like women don't need to be told that babies are people to and shouldn't be killed. This is a serious issue and needs to be treated seriously not used for point scoring by special interest groups, politicians or any other public personage, company or sports club. |
Unfortunately people react emotionally like sheep when an issue is close to home. So if a woman has been subjected to domestic violence in the past, or knows somebody who has been subjected to DV and there is a public chorus of criticism over innocent comments linked to domestic violence, that person is then likely to join in the criticism. If they stopped and thought for a moment objectively about the context in which the comments were made they might form a different opinion. But human beings operate largely in the herd mentality and react accordingly and then it becomes easy for the opportunists to tap into the human conscience and manipulate people for their own causes. This is why we have so many unprincipled and bad politicians. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^^
I don't disagree with what you say CC but where I differ is that I differentiate between disrespectful language toward woman and disrespectful language toward a person who happens to be a woman, that is not based on gender.
There's no doubt that making disrespectful jokes about any group of people, whether based on gender, race or religion, leads to disrespect generally which can have flow on effects.
The comments made were based on disrespect for the person, not the gender and that IMHO is where the whole thing has gone haywire. If this is the precedent, any disrespectful remark about an individual could be considered/construed as racism/sexism or some other ism if that person isn't a white Australian Christian male. |
I agree to an certain extend, but I'm sure you would concede the bolded is at best a pretty tenuous distinction?
Let me be clear, I feel far less strongly abouts Eds comments than the reaction to it, which shocks me to a certain degree.
And it is a 2-way street, no doubt...guess its just the level of polarisation that surprises me, I see it pretty clear cut, its not like the position of Buckley, which could be fairly argued either way |
I don't agree that it's tenuous, in my mind I can draw a clear distinction.
If the remarks were made about Waleed Aly would they be disrespectful to Muslims?
Eddie has little respect for Wilson, as a person. That is pretty much a known fact. The fact that she happens to be female is IMHO incidental and unrelated. His comments IMHO were clearly based on his opinion of the person and had no gender relationship intended or implied. |
Would prefer if you didn't edit my response if we are going to argue the point; its a simple matter of courtesy, same as citing references in an essay.
But I digress; you are certainly entitled to not see it as a gender bias comment from Eddies POV, but I would argue that even if that was the case, the societal context in which the comments were made over rides.
As I said to a previous poster, on average 2 deaths a week, of women, as a result of DV.....I feel that stat over rides any beef between Caro and Ed, which, lets face it, is a pretty childish beef between 2 very highly paid members of a very questionable and ethically dubious media, Eds role as Pres aside |
I'm sorry, what part of your post did I edit? |
Well, not edit perse, but it looses a little bit of context with the original post removed...although I concede that many posters find having the whole thing annoying as it takes up the whole page
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992
Last edited by Collingwood Crackerjack on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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DP
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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