Will Carlton win a flag before we do?

[Geek]

I can't say yes mate.

Now to rationalise it.

Carlton are much improved on two years ago. Even on last year, though their abilities were clouded by being in tank mode from half-year. This was painfully obvious after our second win imho - we shouldn't have won that game.

But they got 1st pick in the draft and they got 1st pick in the pre-season, much like they did with Stevens. Add them all up and there's 3 number ones, 2 recycled champions, Walker and a full forward who might be on 700k.

We know that that club likes to play loose with the cap and if their presidents such as Pratt, CoI Collins and Elliot are anything to go by, they are probably rorting something again. But even so, keeping the full list of 40 odd under the TPP is something that will be very difficult for them to do within a few years. This is, therefore, their window and they have some tough competition in the current top 3 that will last a couple of years yet.

I think they were underestimated by the league this year. A fair amount of thought will go into them over summer. It isn't so much that they will threaten the flag, but they could derail a team's tilt at it. Most clubs would have considered that Judd wouldn't make that much difference. They won't make that mistake again. We might, but the other 14 clubs will put a fair bit into stopping them.

They've had a fairly decent run with injuries this year. Walker was a problem, but Bannister and Houlihan being out might have actually helped their cause. If they were, for instance, to lose 2 of their first 3 forward talls as well as the promising backup (as we did this year), I would think them to be in some awful shape.

Should they lose Cloke or Kreuzer for any extended period, they are back to Ackland or Hampson. Lose Waite and or Fisher and they are in trouble. They can afford to lose 1 of Stevens, Gibbs or Murphy - though if it were Judd, the tanks would be fired up again so quick that petrol would be over 3 bucks by the next round.

So yeah, based on the improvement this year - assuming that the improvement would continue in this manner for the next few years, then maybe you'd have a point. But I think there's enough to say that the improvement this year is the biggest such jump that we'll see from that squad. They will get better, but they won't be monties for the flag by any stretch.

[pieboy]

If one premiership in the last 50 years is any indication .... yes

[David]

I actually voted yes... not that I want to be a pessimist, but from an objective position it does make some sense.

We're right now about a year (or possibly two) ahead of Carlton in terms of development. Unfortunately, it's quite possible that we've already peaked, so to speak (you know, the whole "it's gonna get worse before it gets better" thing). In which case, you'd suspect Carlton might have a crack at the flag in about two years' time, whereas if we don't make it this year we might be rebuilding in the next few years.

Of course, nothing in football is certain or even always that predictable, and you know what, I still reckon we can win it this year or next. Anyway, frankly, I don't care when Carlton wins their next flag - I am far more interested in when we will.

[HAL]

What are you then? Do you have to go school for that?

[DaicosMagic]

Yes. I watched the game yesterday and they were brilliant. Skills are beautiful. Players take risks. Midfield is awesome. Murphy is a GUN. Krooze looks the goods. 1 or 2 more defenders and watch out. Their ball movement and willingness to play on is the coaching direction we need. Handball receives and "mark - play-on" game styles win modern football.

[GreekLunatic]

They can win a flag but if they have an long term injury to Fev and one too Judd they are finished.

[ANNODAM]

Yep.

They have certainly risen out of the doldrums, that's for sure....

Good luck to them, they suffered the pain & now it's time to celebrate. If only WE could play with as much passion as they do....

[Presti35]

Depends what the get for Fev.

[jack_spain]

I won't tell you how I voted, but I feel dirty. Really grubby.

On the other hand (and you better not read on magpie greg lest you spit your coffee all over the keyboard ), if we managed to snare Fevola away from the Scum things might be different. We'd rob them of their firepower and gain a goal kicking machine in one fell swoop. Hmmmm.

[jimbeam]

They win flags we dont. They also cheat, we dont, maybe its time we do

[David]

Carlton have won one flag in the last 20 years... so have we... strange logic

[Dave The Man]

[johnybravo87]

alright ive had just about enough of this shite! if you guys seriously think that carlton will win a flag before us this place is worse that i thought after a loss. line up their list with ours. in bold are the players i would consider quality afl footballers who will or have played 150-200+ games. i have left out players with great potential who are yet to be proven eg: dick, ruz, reid. and also left out elderly players who are doubtful to be part of the next flag unless its going to be this year or next eg: burns,rocca,presti,obree.


* Ackland, Cain
* Anderson, Joe
* Armfield, Dennis
* Austin, Mark
* Bannister, Jordan
* Benjamin, Clinton
* Bentick, Adam
* Betts, Eddie
* Blackwell, Luke
* Bower, Paul
* Browne, Steven
* Carrazzo, Andrew
* Cloke, Cameron
* Edwards, Jake
* Fevola, Brendan
* Fisher, Brad
* Gibbs, Bryce
* Grigg, Shaun
* Hadley, Richard
* Hampson, Shaun
* Hartlett, Adam
* Houlihan, Ryan
* Jackson, Ryan
* Jacobs, Sam
* Jamison, Michael
* Judd, Chris
* Kreuzer, Matthew
* Murphy, Marc
* O'hAilpin, Setanta
* O'hAilpin, Aisake
* Pfeiffer, Darren
* Russell, Jordan
* Saddington, Jason
* Scotland, Heath
* Simpson, Kade
* Stevens, Nick
* Thornton, Bret
* Waite, Jarrad
* Walker, Andrew
* Wiggins, Simon




* Anthony, John
* Barham, Jaxson
* Brown, Nathan J.
* Bryan, Chris
* Burns, Scott
* Clarke, Marty
* Cloke, Travis
* Cook, Ryan
* Cox, Shannon
* Davis, Leon
* Dawes, Chris
* Dick, Brad
* Didak, Alan
* Egan, Chris
* Fraser, Josh
* Goldsack, Tyson
* Holland, Brodie
* Iles, Sam
* Johnson, Ben
* Lockyer, Tarkyn
* Lonie, Ryan
* Macaffer, Brent
* Maxwell, Nick
* McCarthy, John
* Medhurst, Paul
* O'Bree, Shane
* O'Brien, Harry
* Pendlebury, Scott
* Prestigiacomo, Simon
* Reid, Ben
* Rocca, Anthony
* Rusling, Sean
* Shaw, Rhyce
* Shaw, Heath
* Stanley, Danny
* Swan, Dane
* Thomas, Dale
* Thoolan, Toby
* Toovey, Alan
* Wakelin, Shane
* Wellingham, Sharrod
* Wood, Cameron


my biased opinion leaves the pies with 19 and the blues with 15, pretty even i guess.

but on closer inspection i think it shows the blues definatly lack another 1 or even 2 tall defenders because jamison & thorton certainlty isnt enough. now compare this to our defensive prospects of n.brown, jack anthony, goldsack, o'brien & yes nicksters even nick maxwell i think we have the scum covered well and truly in the defensive department.

up forward carltons only real serious threat is fev who we all know is prone to tearing us a new one everytime we play them. however wtf else do they have down there??? fisher is inconsisant, russell is beginning to show some signs but still doesnt look worth the 1st round draft pick they spent on him. so that leaves the likes of betts and co as the other threats...do you guys seriously believe that foward line is going to win the scum a flag? now contrast that with our forward line including cloke, medders, didak and maybe reid & dawes down the track i think we once agian have the blues covered.

now onto the midfield, where it seems the blues have us covered. they have a bonafied supastar in judd and two future stars in gibbs & murphy. add in a stevens, scotland & simpson and all of a sudden thats a damn good midfield. now line ours up against that and we look rubbish but with names such as thomas, pendlebury, didak, swan, clarke, leon davis rotating through we are not the worst midfield going around. and just looking at those names i think it would be safe to say that all are not playing anywhere near their best due to poor form or injury so that probably isnt helping atm.

in the ruck the blues have another future star in kruzer but the talent stops there. cloke and acland are rubbish. hampson has shown some potential but nothing too special. we know two well that you need 2 quality ruckman to win a flag and atm the blues only have kruzer who is playing his first year of football. we have josh who is well...josh! at his best he is a quality ruckman but i dont think we have seen josh at his best for a long time. we also have cam wood who despite 2 recent poor games, has shown some fantastic signs this years to indicate he will be our number 1 ruck for a long time.

but i think the thing that stand out to me is the amount of rubbish players the scum still have on their list, takes a look at these names: acland, houlihan, bannister, blackwell, cloke, hartlett, o'hailpanx2, saddington, wiggins. these are what gary lyon called "list cloggers" earlier in the season. our list cloggers would be: lonie, egan, holland and maybe o'bree & johnson based on the opinion of many nicksters (myself not included).

there is also not alot of young talent still to be played at carlton who would appear to have potential based on vfl form or pre draft talk. compare this to dick, dawes, macaffer, reid, wellingham, anthony & rusling...please feel free to point out carlton players who have you have heard about.

i think thats enough of my uncoordinated ramblings but please dont think that these pricks are better that us because we are in shocking form and they are gong well atm. have a good hard look at it before you make a judgement. and to be honest the best thing that could happen to the filth would be for them to finish in the 6-10 bracket for the next year or two because they wont get access to future superstars anymore and in 5 years down the track they will be stuck in no mans land as fev, stevens & scotland come to the end of the line as murphy, gibbs & kruzer hit their peak. and for f**k sake enough of the negativity and carlton loving especially you annodam

GO PIES!!!

[Alec. J. Hidell]

Great Post that ^^^^

[Kingswood]

Bravo Johnny Bravo