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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | Tasers were brought in for this exact scenario given everyone got outraged when the cops shot dead a kid who charged them with a knife. |
It’s pretty basic not to use Tasers on a 95 year old. The Washington Post are reporting she was also using a walker. Someone needs to lose their job.
What did the staff handover to the Police needs to be asked?
How many staff were on?
What was their level of training?
This should be relatively routine to deal with for an Aged Care Facility.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| lazzadesilva wrote: | | I would have offered a swap for the knife with a glass of brandy. She would have loved to have the brandy, the staff would have got the knife and as a bonus, she would have gone back and slept really well after the “night cap”. Problem solved. |
Underrated post. 
If there were two cops, couldn’t one have distracted her while the other one ran around behind her?
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | Tasers were brought in for this exact scenario given everyone got outraged when the cops shot dead a kid who charged them with a knife. |
You think they would have shot her if they didn’t have tasers available!?
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Nah, they tasered her because they ran out of brandy.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| watt price tully wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | Tasers were brought in for this exact scenario given everyone got outraged when the cops shot dead a kid who charged them with a knife. |
It’s pretty basic not to use Tasers on a 95 year old. The Washington Post are reporting she was also using a walker. Someone needs to lose their job.
What did the staff handover to the Police needs to be asked?
How many staff were on?
What was their level of training?
This should be relatively routine to deal with for an Aged Care Facility. |
It might be simple for someone who has dealt with a lot of crazy elderly patients, maybe the Victorian government hasn’t factored in proper funding and training for Victoria Police to deal with these situations. It’s much easier to say hey we’ve spent millions on this awesome equipment to stop our police having to kill someone to protect their own lives. But we didn’t factor in training them on how to use them… |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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True however I would have thought the nursing home would have someone trained to handle it. I know the ones my parents were at did, they have special dementia wards because a lot of patients can be aggressive at times, not surprisingly, the frustration is horrible.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | It might be simple for someone who has dealt with a lot of crazy elderly patients, maybe the Victorian government hasn’t factored in proper funding and training for Victoria Police to deal with these situations. It’s much easier to say hey we’ve spent millions on this awesome equipment to stop our police having to kill someone to protect their own lives. But we didn’t factor in training them on how to use them… |
Not just training, but also clear regulations. It needs to be written down in law and police codes of conduct that you do not, under any circumstances, use a taser unless your or someone else's physical safety is at immediate and serious risk. You don't use it because someone's running away, or not following instructions, or not making your job easy, or if you're not sure what to do next, because that's not what it's for.
This must be set in stone – because clearly, as this case shows, individual police officers' common sense can't be counted on, and the result far too often has been deaths and serious injuries.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | Tasers were brought in for this exact scenario given everyone got outraged when the cops shot dead a kid who charged them with a knife. |
It’s pretty basic not to use Tasers on a 95 year old. The Washington Post are reporting she was also using a walker. Someone needs to lose their job.
What did the staff handover to the Police needs to be asked?
How many staff were on?
What was their level of training?
This should be relatively routine to deal with for an Aged Care Facility. |
It might be simple for someone who has dealt with a lot of crazy elderly patients, maybe the Victorian government hasn’t factored in proper funding and training for Victoria Police to deal with these situations. It’s much easier to say hey we’ve spent millions on this awesome equipment to stop our police having to kill someone to protect their own lives. But we didn’t factor in training them on how to use them… |
The incident happened in NSW.
I know police here do get training but this is sooo bizarre. Police do get training in weapon use and how to deal with challenging situations. A lot of their work involves unpredictable situations such as alcohol and drugs, psychosis or older people.
Why the facility felt the need to call the police seems unusual.
As Lazza noted distraction can work pretty well although depending on her form of dementia then distraction might not work. Kindness usually works most of the time with most people.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | It might be simple for someone who has dealt with a lot of crazy elderly patients, maybe the Victorian government hasn’t factored in proper funding and training for Victoria Police to deal with these situations. It’s much easier to say hey we’ve spent millions on this awesome equipment to stop our police having to kill someone to protect their own lives. But we didn’t factor in training them on how to use them… |
Not just training, but also clear regulations. It needs to be written down in law and police codes of conduct that you do not, under any circumstances, use a taser unless your or someone else's physical safety is at immediate and serious risk. You don't use it because someone's running away, or not following instructions, or not making your job easy, or if you're not sure what to do next, because that's not what it's for.
This must be set in stone – because clearly, as this case shows, individual police officers' common sense can't be counted on, and the result far too often has been deaths and serious injuries. |
The police do have clear regulations on the use of weapons.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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No doubt, but I wonder if they're sufficiently strict when it comes to this particular weapon. Given what we've seen before, it would appear not.
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| watt price tully wrote: |
The incident happened in NSW.
I know police here do get training but this is sooo bizarre. Police do get training in weapon use and how to deal with challenging situations. A lot of their work involves unpredictable situations such as alcohol and drugs, psychosis or older people.
Why the facility felt the need to call the police seems unusual.
As Lazza noted distraction can work pretty well although depending on her form of dementia then distraction might not work. Kindness usually works most of the time with most people. |
But as you said, the need to call the police tells us that there is more to the story.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
The incident happened at 4am.
There would have been no specialist staff there at that time, just a skeleton crew of likely barely trained low level staff to keep an eye on sleeping old people.
The old woman had dementia and a knife, staff called the cops. The cop clearly had a reason to use the Taser, he didn't do it for fun. His chest camera was on, Police investigators have the footage, it will be up to them to determine whether he had other options that should have been used or if there was an imminent risk of someone getting stabbed.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | It might be simple for someone who has dealt with a lot of crazy elderly patients, maybe the Victorian government hasn’t factored in proper funding and training for Victoria Police to deal with these situations. It’s much easier to say hey we’ve spent millions on this awesome equipment to stop our police having to kill someone to protect their own lives. But we didn’t factor in training them on how to use them… |
Not just training, but also clear regulations. It needs to be written down in law and police codes of conduct that you do not, under any circumstances, use a taser unless your or someone else's physical safety is at immediate and serious risk. You don't use it because someone's running away, or not following instructions, or not making your job easy, or if you're not sure what to do next, because that's not what it's for.
This must be set in stone – because clearly, as this case shows, individual police officers' common sense can't be counted on, and the result far too often has been deaths and serious injuries. |
i could not disagree more!
it is for when CRIMINALS are running away, or not following instructions. And using a taser rather than risk running in traffic etc is not just making your job easy!!! and ill bet you $100 bucks there have been times when you were not sure what to do in a new situation at work, because the book has not been written on every scenario crims think up!!
you have no $$%^%%$ idea! or no care factor! and ill say again I hope you never call a cop when you need one! lets see you deal with a mugger, thief drug addicted ^&*^*% who wants your wallet and maybe a piece of you just because!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
The incident happened at 4am.
There would have been no specialist staff there at that time, just a skeleton crew of likely barely trained low level staff to keep an eye on sleeping old people.
The old woman had dementia and a knife, staff called the cops. The cop clearly had a reason to use the Taser, he didn't do it for fun. His chest camera was on, Police investigators have the footage, it will be up to them to determine whether he had other options that should have been used or if there was an imminent risk of someone getting stabbed. |
yeah the head cop seemed to dither a bit. at least she didnt blindly defend them, but before i judge to harshly id like to see the footage! i mean she could have been attempting self harm, carrying on something chronic, and they thought they were helping her. dont know how big the knife was either.
odd that she was up at 4am.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | It might be simple for someone who has dealt with a lot of crazy elderly patients, maybe the Victorian government hasn’t factored in proper funding and training for Victoria Police to deal with these situations. It’s much easier to say hey we’ve spent millions on this awesome equipment to stop our police having to kill someone to protect their own lives. But we didn’t factor in training them on how to use them… |
Not just training, but also clear regulations. It needs to be written down in law and police codes of conduct that you do not, under any circumstances, use a taser unless your or someone else's physical safety is at immediate and serious risk. You don't use it because someone's running away, or not following instructions, or not making your job easy, or if you're not sure what to do next, because that's not what it's for.
This must be set in stone – because clearly, as this case shows, individual police officers' common sense can't be counted on, and the result far too often has been deaths and serious injuries. |
i could not disagree more!
it is for when CRIMINALS are running away, or not following instructions. And using a taser rather than risk running in traffic etc is not just making your job easy!!! and ill bet you $100 bucks there have been times when you were not sure what to do in a new situation at work, because the book has not been written on every scenario crims think up!!
you have no $�$%^%%$ idea! or no care factor! and ill say again I hope you never call a cop when you need one! lets see you deal with a mugger, thief drug addicted ^&*^*% who wants your wallet and maybe a piece of you just because! |
Agreed on care factor – it's zero here. Not interested in hearing any violin concertos. Everyone makes mistakes, but if your mistake kills or seriously injures somebody you should expect to face serious consequences. But ultimately better laws on this will actually help and protect cops because it'll reduce any grey area and make the process and consequences clearer to them.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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